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The Boy

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: East Northants
Posts: 1459

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Rimini Red

Markh wrote:
This might seem a very basic question but what advantages are seen by blanking the EGR whatever method is used? is it about performance or MPG or something else? would appreciate understanding for those of you that have done this what benefits you've seen?

Sorry for the obvious question but interested to see with fuel prices moving the way they are if this is worth looking into!

The very question I posed a while ago and there were lots of people saying better mpg, runs smoother etc anyway I decided to test it for my self. So I am doing a long test with the EGR on for a month and EGR off (closed) for the same amount of time. I been doing it for a couple of months now with a break for a dealer visit (who then kicked off saying that at sometime I had had a tuned file in but they calmed down now and anyway the warranty ran out last week so it doesn't matter from now on). It is still early days yet and I will not make my mind up until 6 months have past but what I will say at the moment is that I cannot see any difference between the one with and the one without the the EGR.

One thing for sure is that not putting sooty air though the system can't be a bad thing!

Boy

14th Apr 2012 4:08pm

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

Bear in mind that some of the negative effects on performance from an EGR valve will only build over time. There probably won't be much 'before' and 'after' difference on a relatively new vehicle. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

14th Apr 2012 4:17pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

Lorryman100 wrote:

HTH Brian.

Brian

The thermocouple on the EGR side with EGR closed is in a position w/o mass flow, I think it is not a significative position... Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

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14th Apr 2012 6:03pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

konabikes11 wrote:
With closing the EGR instead of removing it or blanking it is it possible to have it closed by software available to most garages? Or does it have to be done with unique performance software like Alive ect? With this I'm not talking about a re-map just closed EGR. And with the closed EGR would there be much of a difference noticeable?

I did a write up here

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic10564.html?highlight=oem+fuel

14th Apr 2012 6:27pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

dgardel wrote:

Brian

The thermocouple on the EGR side with EGR closed is in a position w/o mass flow, I think it is not a significative position...

DG, I don't think the position within the manifold would make that much of a difference in received temps as the expanding gas will reach all areas of the manifold due to the back pressure of a laboured engine in accelerating. The ideal position above would give a true EGT of the upstream gases entering the turbo but I am thinking that the thermocouple would be more likely to fail there rather than at the EGR cooler manifold? This was a scenario I was thinking of doing but the EGR closed by remap is a much easier option than removing everything. I will be looking at getting a ceramic coated manifold with the thermocouple fitting at the turbo flange at a later date, whether I get it made specially or if one of the tuners add it to their stocklist, as Alive does just now for the TD5. I would be very interested if anyone has fitted a EGT thermocouple upstream of the turbo and where and how they fitted it, ideally some one with both upstream and downstream couplings would be great just to get feedback on the differences in temp between them. I was going to get the relevant nut size for the coupling then drill the manifold and weld the nut onto the manifold rather than just drilling and tapping the manifold direct?

Brian.

14th Apr 2012 6:46pm

Denis

Member Since: 28 Dec 2010
Location: prairie
Posts: 58

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Lorryman100 wrote:

I did a write up here
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic10564.html?highlight=oem+fuel

Lorryman, thanks for your clear explanation on subject

You wrote about The Entreq EGR killer manifold - inlet manifold minus gas mixing pipe - Do you know about other options of such manifold for Puma? entreq is little bit pricey for me. Can't find any...
Cheers Puma 110

14th Apr 2012 6:47pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Hi Denis, I don't know of anyone else who is going down the same route as Entreq with their EGR killer kit. The problem that you overcame with the MIL lamp seems to be the biggest hurdle to conquer without having to add a software fix, and I know now this cannot be done without the MIL light lit permanently. I have the EGR closed by software and have had zero issues with the EGR, this for me is the best option and the cheapest way I have found of doing it. But your way of totally blocking the gases yet having the EGR valve work as it should is brilliant.

14th Apr 2012 7:02pm

Denis

Member Since: 28 Dec 2010
Location: prairie
Posts: 58

Thanks Lorryman! I plan in near future to shut the thing by remap (think about Alive). Because my MIL may turn on any moment

Also I think that removig EGR cooler is very good for cooling system. I have a feeling that Puma's cooling system was designed without EGR cooler in first place and than LR merely put in tees and connected EGR cooler. I already wrote about it but think that's important. Just my 2 cents... Puma 110

14th Apr 2012 7:28pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

Lorryman100 wrote:
dgardel wrote:

Brian

The thermocouple on the EGR side with EGR closed is in a position w/o mass flow, I think it is not a significative position...

DG, I don't think the position within the manifold would make that much of a difference in received temps as the expanding gas will reach all areas of the manifold due to the back pressure of a laboured engine in accelerating. The ideal position above would give a true EGT of the upstream gases entering the turbo but I am thinking that the thermocouple would be more likely to fail there rather than at the EGR cooler manifold? This was a scenario I was thinking of doing but the EGR closed by remap is a much easier option than removing everything. I will be looking at getting a ceramic coated manifold with the thermocouple fitting at the turbo flange at a later date, whether I get it made specially or if one of the tuners add it to their stocklist, as Alive does just now for the TD5. I would be very interested if anyone has fitted a EGT thermocouple upstream of the turbo and where and how they fitted it, ideally some one with both upstream and downstream couplings would be great just to get feedback on the differences in temp between them. I was going to get the relevant nut size for the coupling then drill the manifold and weld the nut onto the manifold rather than just drilling and tapping the manifold direct?

Brian.

Brian

I made a lot of engine experiments and investigation and the right position for the thermocouples is where the flow speed is a maximum.

The position on the EGR side is a sort of stagnation zone for the exhaust gasses (also if your egr is working because 1.the mass flow is lower than the real exhaust gas flow 2.EGR is always closed on WOT and max power engine request)

In this case you can read 200 - 250 °C less than the real one.

see here http://landrover.megacloudstorage.com/item...7baa616faf.

Click image to enlarge

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Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

14th Apr 2012 9:46pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Cheers DG.

I have scrapped the full removal of the EGR and won't be fitting an EGT there now as the cooler is still present. I have been looking into getting a manifold altered and getting a ceramic coating on in preparation for the stage 4 remap from Alive once I'm out of warranty in a couple of months. Now all I need to do is decide which EGT system I'm going to fit

15th Apr 2012 9:38am

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

Lorryman100 wrote:

My selfmade manifold

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

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Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

16th Apr 2012 11:42am

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