 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Loss of power |
 
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| johnnyturbo2002 Member Since: 21 May 2009 Location: Poniente Granadino Posts: 371   
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This has happened to me twice (or maybe 3 times)in two different kinds of weather...1st (2nd) in summer with about 30C and the other with 13C, both pulling a slight hill loaded with wife and kids...felt liketurbo cutout and I was left with very little power. No lights or warning lights, nothing. Pulled over switched off and on again with in 30 seconds and it was fine...told my dealer about it today and she looked blank as if never heard of it before...I'll love to know what the problem is/was if you guys figure it out. 2008 Defender 110 60 year Edition (sold unfortunately)
IN the hunt for another Puma for the wifey! 2008 Kia Sorento LX 😁 2.5crdi |
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13th Feb 2012 3:24pm |
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| fekete Member Since: 24 Dec 2008 Location: Here on the other end of the computer Posts: 3626  
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Boy, exactly the same when i came of the motorway it was better at say 30 but turned it of for 10 mins and its been fine since...it would be nice to know what as coursed it if the dealer finds anything let us know
 NEVER TAKE LIFE SERIOUSLY. NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE ANYWAY |
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13th Feb 2012 4:18pm |
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| The Boy Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: East Northants Posts: 1459 
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Happy to pass anything learned from the dealers but I am not holding my breath. But if you do see a headline stateing that hell has frozen over you know who to ask.
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13th Feb 2012 4:22pm |
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| Eduardo Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Región Metropolitana Posts: 2110  
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Hummm,
Same to me with high temps and long trips. Looks like a high temp protection issue, but not sure. As soon as you have some news please post it. Cheers Eduardo MY 2007 110 SW PUMA 2.4: Big Fog of 64' MY 1994 Jayco 1207 Folding camper: "El Tremendo"  Click image to enlarge |
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13th Feb 2012 5:25pm |
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| The Boy Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: East Northants Posts: 1459
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What has confused be is that I thought if there was an overheating issue the AC fan should also cut in but in this case when I stopped it was not running.
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13th Feb 2012 5:27pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
A couple of my thoughts/ramblings on possible causes on the electrical side of this problem?
The ECU protocol for high coolant temp is for the fan to run continuously whether the coolant is hot or cold. The sensor used by the ECU to monitor coolant temp is the CHT sensor (cylinder head temp) which is located at the rear of the engine at the coolant manifold junction. The ECU uses this sensor to do fueling calculations, limit engine operation if engine coolant temperature becomes too high, cooling fan operation and glow plug activation time. If this sensor is faulty the ECU defaults to a stored temp of 80C and runs the cooling fan continuously which can lead to: difficult cold start, difficult hot start, engine performance compromised and temperature gauge inoperative or inaccurate reading. The next sensor would be the MAP sensor which is located on the Intake manifold. This controls active boost which in turn controls the angle of the variable vanes within the turbo which are controlled by the turbo modulator acting on information received from the ECU which in turn acts on the information received from the MAP sensor. So if the MAP was faulty the ECU reverts to a default pressure of about 1013 mbar which in turn would render Active boost control inoperative and start throwing out black smoke due to over fuelling (Altitude compensation inoperative), so it would feel as if there was no power when you pushed in the throttle pedal. This sensor is easy enough to remove and clean so this would be the first thing I would do. The turbo modulator plug and harness have been the subject of a recall notice due to the harness suffering from heat and vibration damage. There has also been a case on here of the harness plug being at fault for power loss due to a couple of broken wires, CRJ IIRC. A visual inspection should let you see if the issue lies there. And while you are there give the control bar a pull and see if that moves freely without any binding/stiffness. The MAF sensor if faulty will just make the ECU revert to stored values and would increase fuel use and turn on the MIL if knackered, but should not cause any sudden drop in power issues? TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is part of the accelerator pedal and is a complete unit so all you could really check is the plugs for water contamination? Though the best way to find out what is causing this issue would be to plug in a diagnostic tool and check the live engine data to see what is going on. A scangauge set up to monitor the MAP, CHT and TPS would either rule them out as the cause or confirm the problem sensor. Even unplugging the above sensors and coating the pins and plugs with an electrical contact cleaner may clear the fault? HTH Brian Last edited by Lorryman100 on 14th Feb 2012 6:27pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Feb 2012 7:10pm |
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| fekete Member Since: 24 Dec 2008 Location: Here on the other end of the computer Posts: 3626
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Thanks for all the info Brian and taking the time to Write it.....Also giving us a bit more knowledge on the faults were getting...top man
NEVER TAKE LIFE SERIOUSLY. NOBODY GETS OUT ALIVE ANYWAY |
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13th Feb 2012 8:04pm |
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| The Boy Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: East Northants Posts: 1459
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What he said.
Thanks Brian you're a star |
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13th Feb 2012 8:25pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Another thing worth checking if all of above pans out OK is the VCV (volume control valve) located in the fuel pump as this is responsible for metering the fuel from the low pressure to the high pressure side of the pump and onto the fuel common rail. Because of its location it might be worthwhile checking the harness and giving the plug and pins a coating of electrical contact cleaner. Again this sensors actions can be added to the list of scangauge monitored sensors, the gauge being the FPr (Fuel pressure at rail). Last edited by Lorryman100 on 13th Feb 2012 9:18pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Feb 2012 8:46pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Just incase anyone is wondering how the MAP sensor gets dirty as it is on the clean side of the air filter?
I think it is because the recycled exhaust emissions from the EGR enter the intake manifold via the gas transfer and mixer pipe which is adjacent to the MAP sensor along with minute contamination which passes through the air filter and builds up over time. I would be curious to know if anybody with a performance oiled air filter notes any oily/grungy contamination on the MAP? You can see it in the below pic. Please ignore the red writing as this pic was done to show the total removal of the EGR system by using the new Entreq replacement manifold without the gas mixer pipe and removing the EGR cooler and blanking the exhaust manifold. But as I now have the EGR closed 100% of the time by the Alive remap I don't see a need to completely remove the EGR system.
Brian. |
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13th Feb 2012 9:14pm |
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| wslr Member Since: 18 Jul 2010 Location: Wellington, Somerset Posts: 581
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They all do this over time, which is what is so ironic about the idea of the system to start with. As the sensors get dirty, they stop the engine working efficiently. Also, don't forget the areas around the inside of the inlet get covered in an oil/soot mixture (anyone having removed and EGR unit will have seen it). Freelander Td4 M47 engines are really bad at this. The entire inlet plastic inlet pre-manifold starts silting up on the inside up to the point where the engine won't run properly because it can't breathe. Not wanting to worry anyone with a hypotheses, but have you thought that adding 2 stroke oil or using poor fuel may actually contribute to this. Just an hypotheses, so no shouting please. 
Anyway, I expect the dealer will either download latest Powertrain ECU software, or run the EGR/Turbocharger diagnostic to see if the readings are correct for fast idle and idle. This also tests the MAF. However, from your description it sounds more like an electrical (loom/multi-plug/ECU/relay) issue really, especially if no DTC's are stored. |
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13th Feb 2012 11:01pm |
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| jav-uk Member Since: 29 Mar 2010 Location: Shropshire Posts: 112  
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 Lorryman
I have had an ITG filter fitted for past 1000 miles. Will check the MAP for oil and advise. Filled up with Shell diesel but only did short journey's over the weekend, all has been okay for me since. I am hoping my issue was related to dodgy fuel. I vowed never to use Morrison's fuel after the bio fuel fiasco but I read somewhere their fuel no longer has bio added and have been using them occasionally because its cheaper. I also have a vague memory of a thread about water contamination in the fuel line causing power surges..... Paul Pondering a New 90 Commercial 2020 Evoque * 2014 110 SW JE Stage 2. *2010 110 Utility. JE Stage 2. *2007 110 SW *2003 90 JE Stage 2. *2000 90 SW If its not leaking it ain't full. |
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13th Feb 2012 11:20pm |
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| BIGFOG Member Since: 12 Sep 2010 Location: Edenbridge Posts: 537 
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I've had an ITG filter for about 60000 miles and have checked the MAF sensor before for deposits and even sent it back to Pete Bell when he did a forum analysis. There was a little contamination on the sensor, but nothing horrendous and replacing it with the new one that Pete supplied made no difference to the running of the engine - NB I also use the 2 Stroke trick and will not go back!
I do however have serious doubts about diesel quality and where possible only use Shell or BP. It seems that 50% of the time I go elsewhere the engine runs like a dog. I also use a diesel cleaner like redex every now and then which always seems to pick up the performance an mpg. 2009 XS 110 Utility Stornaway Grey BAS re Remap, BAS Turbo, BAS Spec Modified Airbox, Twisted Side exit Decat Exhaust, Allisport Cooler and Hoses, OME Sport Shocks, Kangaroo Paw Discs. 2001 Discovery II Porsche Speedster Replica 1956ish |
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14th Feb 2012 5:26am |
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| CRJ Member Since: 12 Mar 2011 Location: Sealand - Denmark Posts: 253  
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Hi
Just a short question about the actuator arm - should I be able to move it up and down - or just see that it moves freely in the joints? Mine moves in the joints - but I cant move it up or down at all 
Regards CRJ 88 Ser. 3 1980 -sold Puma 130 - 08- sold 90 200tdi 1991 - sold 88 Ser. 3 1977 200 TDI 110 CC 2003 |
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14th Feb 2012 5:44am |
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