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megatoad



Member Since: 07 Jan 2012
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
Defender Newbie wants info on remapping vs overdrive
Hi All

I am a ironically a newbie to Defenders. Despite having run Land Rovers for the past 20 years starting with a 1969 SIIA 109 with Perkins 4203 which I re-engined to a V8, a '72 Range Rover with Perkins 4236 again I re-engined to V8. I then tried to kick the habbit and disposed of my collection which even included a 1952 80" project.

A few years ago the bug bit be again and I got a 300TDi Disco. Marriage saw me having to lose the Disco for a sensible car Sad

I then got the opportunity to buy back my 80" as a runner from the now grown up lad I had originally sold it to (now thats my kind of restoration)

Having let the missus passenger round the RTV at the ALRC nationals last year she relented and let me look for a new LR to replace the Corsa.

This resulted in the purchasse of an extremely low mileage 110XS 06 plate with extended LR warranty in the summer which I love as does the wife who nicks it at the first opportunity.

Hoever as I said at the beginning, despite extensive life in older vehicles I had never driven a TD5 let alone a Defender !!

I am looking for user discussion on whether it is a good idea to get a remap to help improve the TD5s feeble nature or is it best left well alone as I have heard horror stories of remapped engines warping manifolds and even blowing up.

I also want to know what peoples experiences are of overdrives be it either the machanical Roverdrive or the fancier GKN units.

I dont really want to go down the modified transfer case route as the car will be used for towing not just the occasional caravan but the occasional transporter with a LR on the back and hill starts can bad enough as it is without winding up the turbo first.
Post #114891 13th Jan 2012 10:34am
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Zinke



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Scunthorpe
Posts: 670

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
Get it remapped and get a intercooler too if you can afford one. Makes a massive difference!! What ever you do dont get a box that you wire up or a generic tune from somewhere like autolodgic, speak to one of the proper tuning companies that are on here. Dont worry about damage to your engine if its done properly and you dont drive it like you stole it all the time. Sometimes the manifolds do warp but its a easy fix and nomally only tend to do it on the higher power tunes and/or when you do a lot of high speed driving. That said it can happen to any TD5, best to leave it a minute to cool down before you stop your engine when you get where you want to be as this helps a lot.

Fitting a overdrive may help but do it after you have had it remapped or you will struggle pulling top gear up any kind of hill.

Pete.
Post #114908 13th Jan 2012 10:55am
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megatoad



Member Since: 07 Jan 2012
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
Hi Pete

Yes I have would definatly look at the remap and certainly several folk on the LRSOC forum have mentioned similar.

Basically I comute 12 miles each way to work along the A41 which is basically a long incline with a max elevation gain fo 600ft +, I havn't done a thourough mileage analysis yet but rudimatary maths gives about 22mpg !!

Though the 110 does have a full roof rack with a set of daft spotlights plus under body protection so there is a bit of extra weight and wind resistance there.
Post #114916 13th Jan 2012 11:25am
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RRUK
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Member Since: 31 Mar 2010
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 2025

United Kingdom 
I've had both my Range Rovers remapped by JE Engineering in Coventry and may just do the same with the TD5. The difference its made to my TDV8 is just astonishing, leaves me speechless. 2016 D4 HSE

1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF

1982 Series 3 SWB Petrol
Post #114921 13th Jan 2012 11:35am
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JSG



Member Since: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 2412

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Hi,

I've had a GKN overdrive on a previous TD5 110 and it was great but I prefer the option of a transfer box ratio upgrade from Ashcrofts that I had on my TD5 90. John

http://www.hampshire4x4response.co.uk

2011 Tdci 110 CSW XS
Post #115026 13th Jan 2012 4:35pm
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Killer90
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Member Since: 09 Oct 2011
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 6478

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Fuji White
mega toad i have a td5 90 with a gkn overdrive i have heard good and bad comments like everything on them so far i have had no trouble and really does come in handy for motorway driving, i have also booked the 90 in for a remap along with a road race intercooler turbo boost box and new turbo to come the tune up is next weekend with alive will let you know how i get on were abouts in hertfordshire are you if you dont mind me asking, if not to far away perhaps ill take ya out for a spin once its done Thumbs Up
Post #115047 13th Jan 2012 5:24pm
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Porny
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Member Since: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands
Posts: 809

 
The GKN unit is no longer made - so you will have to go down the route of a second hand option... and finding that doesn't leak and is fault free might be interesting.

I've not tried a rocky mountain version, but they do look a nice unit.

But I'd look at how much heavy towing you do... I've fitted higher ratio gears to quite a few Defenders - and even towed with quite a few of them without a problem.

In all honesty, I find the new spread of gears with the high ratio transfer box a lot nicer than using an overdrive - especially on a tuned Defenders.

Low range is uneffected with the high ratio gears, so if you are towing someting very heavy, it would be kinder to start off in low range, and then shift to high on the move - a very easy process once practiced - and without any clunks.

Warped manifolds come about due to high Exhaust Gas Temps - however, its not just remapped cars that suffer - standard td5's can as well. Some of the problem comes from people thrashing the LR from cold, and not letting it cool down. You could fit an uprated stud kit which does help reduce the problem.

Before any remap/tuning work you should really get your Defender plugged into some diagnostic equipment by someone that knows what they are doing - as things problems like failed MAF (mass air flow sensors) and blocked MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensors can cause lots of problems - especially with regards to low speed pull away.

Remapping/Calibration changes - there are lots of companies, some good - some not so good. So do some research. Not all of the 'tuners' sponser the forum yet - so some can't self promote :roll - so offer advice only.


Ian
Post #115627 15th Jan 2012 5:55pm
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Thor



Member Since: 17 Dec 2011
Location: Didcot
Posts: 446

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
My TD5 110 had a larger intercooler, remap and GKN over drive on it already when I bought it and it drives fantastically well comparing it to standard ones that I test drove. Once I eliminate green lane trips I'm averaging 28.6 mpg in mine with a Hannibal roof rack on. Thats with all sorts of driving styles....including the Mrs!!!
Post #115743 15th Jan 2012 8:43pm
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Killer90
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Member Since: 09 Oct 2011
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 6478

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Fuji White
thats good to know mate save a bit more on the diesel Thumbs Up mine actually isnt to bad at the moment as it is but when you kick it the fuel does drop quick must be a hole somewhere Laughing
Post #115781 15th Jan 2012 9:43pm
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kzycnn



Member Since: 24 Apr 2009
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 276

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Oslo Blue
My TD5 had a GKN overdrive, larger intercooler and aftermarket 'plug-in' chip when I bought it. It was lethal to drive as the power came in all at once - it was a bit lifeless, then bam!!!

Had the ECU properly retuned and it truly transformed the drive. I find the overdrive very useful and have had no problems with it. Haven't driven one with a high ratio transfer box so can't compare the two.

Fuel consumption varies but, on average it's around the same as Thor's. This is with a full length hannibal roof rack and maggiolina roof tent permanently fitted - so it's never going to be frugal Wink Have started to drive in sensibly though - attempt to cruise at around 65MPH rather than the 85 it will do (even loaded up)

Tony
Post #115837 16th Jan 2012 8:28am
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gav///m5



Member Since: 02 Oct 2010
Location: south staffs
Posts: 6

2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Cairns Blue
I have a 2005 Defender 110 xs which I too bought with a full Landrover approved used 12 month warranty.
It was the longest 12 months of my life in standard tune and although I made use of the warranty on other areas there was nothing the dealer could do when I asked them to look if any of the 122 ponies had gone lame !
After the agonising 12 months was over I started to look at various tuning companies and settled with Ian from IRB developments as both him and his company get excellent feedback wherever you look or ask !
Ian is also very helpful when it comes to giving advice as to what would suit your needs.
I started with a decat, silencer removal, egr replacement and a high flow cotton filter all of which made a big difference to how responsive the Defender felt.
but I still wanted more -
So I replaced the intercooler to the largest you can fit to a td5 with air-con (actually no different in size to a non air-con model so dont be fobbed off)
This again was an IRB developments intercooler although fitted by me along with silicon turbo hoses and I then took the Defender to Ians unit for a full diagnostic check before he removed my standard map and uploaded a "stage 2" map.
Oh My God ! (and several other expletives)
For a 110 this thing absolutely flies - instant power in all gears, it will actually accelerate rather than just gaining speed and I can carry out safe overtake manouveres when required.
Best thing is that for the £90-ish to fill the tank from the light coming on I can still get 400 miles until the low fuel light appears again which is no different to before the tuning work.
I have an 8 metre twin axle touring caravan that is quite heavy and when on the motorway the defender will now hold a steady 60mph up any incline - thats where I notice the benefit most as its much more relaxing.
I do not have an overdrive but I do have taller wheels and tyres fitted which has made a "slight" difference to the overall gearing and as a whole I am more than happy with the Defender now.
Take your time and do your research and dont try and scrimp a few pennies as there are cheaper alternatives with big power claims that have the potential to cost you dear in the long run.
Post #115878 16th Jan 2012 11:45am
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yobbie



Member Since: 15 Nov 2010
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 712

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 90 Td5 Heritage LE Bronze Green
I agree with Gav. I bought a 1999 Heritage TD5 2 years ago, that had a 'plug in' chip, when I bought it. The power was just a power band with nothing below 1800rpm ( yes I have a rev counter ) and then a big surge (not very nice to drive). I removed the box and had a stage 1 remap from IRB (Ian or Porny) so much better the power is spread over the whole rev range. I have since had a stage 2, large intercooler etc. & VNT turbo. It now pulls from 1000rpm and will cruise above the legal limit even up hills. Mine had suffered with a warped manifold before tuning but I've not suffered any problems since the tuning.
Post #116052 16th Jan 2012 10:10pm
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megatoad



Member Since: 07 Jan 2012
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
Killer90 wrote:
mega toad i have a td5 90 with a gkn overdrive i have heard good and bad comments like everything on them so far i have had no trouble and really does come in handy for motorway driving, i have also booked the 90 in for a remap along with a road race intercooler turbo boost box and new turbo to come the tune up is next weekend with alive will let you know how i get on were abouts in hertfordshire are you if you dont mind me asking, if not to far away perhaps ill take ya out for a spin once its done Thumbs Up


Hi Killa I am in Hemel it would be great to have a go in a tweaked Defender.

I must admit and I am showing how many times I have lifted the bonnet here that I assumed the TD5 had an intercooler as standard, obviously I am aware that bigger intercoolers offfer a few more horses. however having the fecking aircon I am not sure if there is enough room up front to fit a new IC.

It also means I have the grill further forward so there is no point trying to fit a military recovery bumper as I would never get the pin out.
Post #116104 17th Jan 2012 9:23am
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megatoad



Member Since: 07 Jan 2012
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
Porny wrote:
The GKN unit is no longer made - so you will have to go down the route of a second hand option... and finding that doesn't leak and is fault free might be interesting.

I've not tried a rocky mountain version, but they do look a nice unit.

But I'd look at how much heavy towing you do... I've fitted higher ratio gears to quite a few Defenders - and even towed with quite a few of them without a problem.

In all honesty, I find the new spread of gears with the high ratio transfer box a lot nicer than using an overdrive - especially on a tuned Defenders.

Low range is uneffected with the high ratio gears, so if you are towing someting very heavy, it would be kinder to start off in low range, and then shift to high on the move - a very easy process once practiced - and without any clunks.

Warped manifolds come about due to high Exhaust Gas Temps - however, its not just remapped cars that suffer - standard td5's can as well. Some of the problem comes from people thrashing the LR from cold, and not letting it cool down. You could fit an uprated stud kit which does help reduce the problem.

Before any remap/tuning work you should really get your Defender plugged into some diagnostic equipment by someone that knows what they are doing - as things problems like failed MAF (mass air flow sensors) and blocked MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensors can cause lots of problems - especially with regards to low speed pull away.

Remapping/Calibration changes - there are lots of companies, some good - some not so good. So do some research. Not all of the 'tuners' sponser the forum yet - so some can't self promote :roll - so offer advice only.


Ian


Thanks Ian, very informative

At the moment the LR doesnt tow much but I have just bought a widetrack trailer body to try and cobble onto my old narrow Sankey chassis but these are both back up in Leeds so I will need a good weekend trip to go up and fettle all the bits.

Looking to get a decent caravan for camping out at the ALRC nationals this year too. then ultimatly possibly a trailer to haul the 80" around if it needs it. that said it happily trundled 180m down from Leeds, to Herts, then 100m each way to the Nationals last year plus double enterred in the RTV without any mishap other than loosing the iol filler/breather cap someway round the trial Smile

As for pulling off in low box I still feel nervous about that as I used to have (20 years ago) an old Range Rover with a Perkins 4236 and I managed to smash some teth off the transfer teeth when changing up from bottom to top or viceversa while green laning. Some of the fragments ended up being ingested into the fairy overdrive and killing that too despite double declutching! ergo I havnt really played with low range yet other than to change a wheel.

Actually I am taking the car into the dealer tonight so they can check out the heated windscreen though they claim that glass isn't coverred under warranty. Glass in general I can accept, but a heated front screen is part of the electrical system in my mind and should be covered if defective.
Post #116107 17th Jan 2012 9:38am
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megatoad



Member Since: 07 Jan 2012
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 358

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
gav///m5 wrote:
I have a 2005 Defender 110 xs which I too bought with a full Landrover approved used 12 month warranty.
It was the longest 12 months of my life in standard tune and although I made use of the warranty on other areas there was nothing the dealer could do when I asked them to look if any of the 122 ponies had gone lame !
After the agonising 12 months was over I started to look at various tuning companies and settled with Ian from IRB developments as both him and his company get excellent feedback wherever you look or ask !
Ian is also very helpful when it comes to giving advice as to what would suit your needs.
I started with a decat, silencer removal, egr replacement and a high flow cotton filter all of which made a big difference to how responsive the Defender felt.
but I still wanted more -
So I replaced the intercooler to the largest you can fit to a td5 with air-con (actually no different in size to a non air-con model so dont be fobbed off)
This again was an IRB developments intercooler although fitted by me along with silicon turbo hoses and I then took the Defender to Ians unit for a full diagnostic check before he removed my standard map and uploaded a "stage 2" map....


Hi Gav

Thats great info too.

OK so now I know a bit more to look into about intercoolers. I may go the remap route but as you say I will let the warranty expire in the summer first.

Mind you while the rover only had 13k on the clock for an 06 plate I believe it had been used by an outdoor events company as a bling tractor for a large trailer and as such probably had numpties driving it. I had problems with the gear chenge, especially trying to get reverse and 2nd. So LR put a recon box in it 2k ago which is about run in. stand still into 1st can still be a Censored though, so I may get them to look at that too, but as it is such a new box I am not inclined to change transfer gears yet.
Post #116114 17th Jan 2012 9:49am
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