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| Zinke Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Scunthorpe Posts: 670   
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To me those MAF Readings still look a bit low. Should be at LEAST 50 at tick over but from a new unit i would expect closer to 57 really but every engine is different. Under full load, say 3rd gear up a steep incline at rpm 3000+, you should read 550-600 at least. If it doesnt get that high with the engine under full load then its not working right.
Was the MAF you got from Allmakes a genuine one in a Land Rover box? If its not a genuine one in a Land Rover box i personally wouldnt bother with it, they just dont work right. I had a customer recently who refused to let me change the MAF on his discovery because he bought a new cheap one on ebay. It wasnt until i took the one off my defender and let him take it for a test drive with a genuine one fitted that he agreed to spend the 90 on a new genuine one rather than the 30 ebay one. Anyway thats my 10p worth, may not be the MAF in the end but It does sound to me like its the place to start looking. Pete. |
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14th Dec 2011 3:44pm |
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| Zeus Member Since: 14 Dec 2011 Location: Dumfriesshire, UK Posts: 10
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Hi Pete,
Thanks for the quick reply. Yes the allmakes one was a cheap version rather than a LR part. It has the "electronic components" as filament wires rather than just wires. How do these units fail? The original LR part that I removed is still working, in that it produces about 50 at tickover but will not produce a reading above 400 (third gear - up a hill, full throttle etc) Do they "drift" with age or is the usual failure mode just full scale in one direction or the other? If I have two MAF sensors both reading low, could it be a sensor power supply issue? Looks like I will be investing in a LR MAF sensor for the 90 quid I guess. Zeus 2004 110 XS SW |
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14th Dec 2011 4:17pm |
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| Zinke Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Scunthorpe Posts: 670
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They normally just get dirty and the wires that get damaged so they dont read the way there supposed to. I have heard of people trying to clean them but in my experience it doesnt work and on the odd time it does it doesnt last. If your Allmakes one is different to look at than your original one in anyway then i really would look at buying a genuine one. By no means can i say if it is or isnt the MAF without looking at the vehicle and plugging it into my laptop but a lot of problems on the TD5 of it "just not running quite right" is down to the MAF so worth a shot, and 90 isnt life changing money to try it, though i do appreciate its nearly christmas.
Pete. |
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14th Dec 2011 4:59pm |
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| Zeus Member Since: 14 Dec 2011 Location: Dumfriesshire, UK Posts: 10
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Pete,
Good news - I am nearly there. I am pretty sure the MAF readings are the problem. I came up with a cunning way of fooling the ECU to see slightly higher MAF readings than I am getting and the performance has improved. Local dealer did not have a new MAF in stock but I have ordered one mail order. I am 90% sure that a new, genuine MAF will fix me up.....fingers crossed. Zeus 2004 110 XS SW |
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15th Dec 2011 10:28pm |
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| wslr Member Since: 18 Jul 2010 Location: Wellington, Somerset Posts: 581
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Just from experience, the Allmakes ones were pretty reliable, but they appear to only last no more than 6 months now, so I expect they've found a cheaper supplier...
The VDO ones in the white boxes are OEM/Genuine spec. |
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16th Dec 2011 12:18pm |
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| Zinke Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Scunthorpe Posts: 670
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Sorry to correct you but the genuine ones are made by Siemens not VDO. Pete. |
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16th Dec 2011 4:57pm |
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| derbywill Member Since: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 559  
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Siemans and VDO are the same ,we fit there tachographs there actually now Continetal same as the tyres
Ian at IRB told me that even the oem ones don't quite give the same readings at the upper part of its scale As the genuine ones do and should always fit gen. Will 2005 90 XS 1954 86'' Series 1 tilt 1968 88” 2A 200tdi 2002 110 Hardtop |
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16th Dec 2011 7:44pm |
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| Zeus Member Since: 14 Dec 2011 Location: Dumfriesshire, UK Posts: 10
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Hang on a minute....... is not OEM and genuine the same?
Zeus 2004 110 XS SW |
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16th Dec 2011 11:03pm |
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| wslr Member Since: 18 Jul 2010 Location: Wellington, Somerset Posts: 581
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I've been using T4 with both a new Genuine and new VDO units earlier this week and I can't tell the difference.
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16th Dec 2011 11:26pm |
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| Zeus Member Since: 14 Dec 2011 Location: Dumfriesshire, UK Posts: 10
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Hi all,
Right, I have this sorted now, so thought I would come back and let you know how I got on. A new MAF (Genuine LR) has arrived and gives me good air flow figures. The truck runs great now so it was the MAF all along. With a Nanocom or similar it is easy to see what the MAF is reading at tickover, and then by doing a 0-60 fast acceleration run and logging the real-time data it is easy to obtain the "peak" air flow reading. My first LR MAF sensor (that was fitted to the car at manufacture) now reads 49/350, that is 49 kg/hr at tickover and 350kg/hr at peak. The car runs very sluggish The Allmakes MAF sensor that I bought asnd fitted a year ago (and was quite happy at the time as it was an improvement) reads 49/450. These have not changed over the year of use as I have Nanocom log files from when it was fitted and the show the same readings. The new MAF-(LR Genuine - purchased this week) reads 57/580 and the truck runs well. I am hopeful this will also improve fuel economy as for the last year or two I have only really got about 23-24 MPG and when the truck was new I routinely got 27 MPG What threw me was that I good some really good 0-60 times once when I had the Allmakes MAF fitted. Extreame performance I would describe it as. After a bit more messing about I could never repeat it and I was begining to worry for my sanity - it was only the Nanocom log files that PROVED to me that I had acheived fantastic performance with what we now now is a low reading sensor. I realised that what had happened was that the rubber ended hose that connects the MAF to the turbo had got folded under/inside at the bottom as I was pushing it back on the MAF body. It was dark and I did not realise. There was no air leak, but what it did do was restrict the cross sectional area of of the air inlet through the MAF body by a small amount. This reduction in area meant that for the same voulume of air sucked into the engine, the velocity had to be higher as it passed the restriction (and henser the actual sensor). So the sensor saw higher air speeds than it would have measured normally, thus effectivly correcting (and indeed over correcting) for the low readings of the sensor itself. I proved this later by fitting a bit of insulating tape accross the outslet of the MAF body, at the bottom which is oposite to the sensor element located at the top of the tube. I left the tape long so the ends would get trapped by the hose and clip and so be retained well rather than being sucked into the Turbo! The performane increases. Looking at the Nanocom files, it appears to affect the mid range more than the tick over and peak figures. I have tried putting blanking tape in other locations (like on the inlet to the MAF and can achieve slightly different effects. What can be seen to be happening is that the tape fools the sensor into thinking more air is actually going into the engine, and so the ECU feels able to inject more fuel to match. As the standard air/fuel mix is designed to be fuel limited and is designed for economy / emmisions charecteristics there is scope for a little increase in fueling (fundamentally that is what a performance re-map does I think) and hence increase in performance. So - a bit of sticky tape is a poor mans re-map perhaps. I am a standard kind of guy so the tape is off for me. A well running, standard TD5 is quite afequate for me. By all means try it at your own risk. Zeus 2004 110 XS SW |
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22nd Dec 2011 7:18am |
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| Alive Tuning Member Since: 01 Mar 2010 Location: Louth Posts: 610
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Absolute nonsense! If anything, there may be a small variance due to being made in batches, but nothing else. We have been using the OEM white boxed Siemens VDO MAF sensors for many years. Let's just say that I have done a lot of data logging of all MAF sensor types over many years. Genuine LR sensors are absolutely the same as the OEM Siemens VDO sensors. |
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22nd Dec 2011 8:41am |
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| Zinke Member Since: 27 Jan 2009 Location: Scunthorpe Posts: 670
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How much of a saving would be made by using a white box Siemens MAf rather than a genuine one? I always found i couldnt get them much cheaper than a genuine one with the discounts i get. Pete. |
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22nd Dec 2011 5:38pm |
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