 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Here it is... |
 
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1428   
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This vehicle has restored my faith in the world. Someone is going to build a vehicle that I want to buy, and sell it in the UK.
Before this the only option was a Jeep Wrangler. The Euro spec wranglers are expensive for what they are and only get 4cyl engines, not ideally what I want. The Grenadier has just jumped to the top of my list for a next purchase, whenever that time comes. I'm slightly disappointed that it doesn't have more of an individual style and identity of it's own, it deserves to do well and stand out.  |
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1st Jul 2020 9:15pm |
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| Yulong Member Since: 18 Nov 2017 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 110
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Overall liking the purity, but the front is a bit off for me and that’s taking on board the pedestrian regs. Can’t help thinking close double headlights would work better, like BMWs of old.
Perhaps will fare better in a dark colour, that always ‘bulks’ up a design so may help balance the shallow, wide face. |
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1st Jul 2020 10:20pm |
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| apt100 Member Since: 05 Mar 2015 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1547 
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^^ I thought about double round headlights (had Capris in the past). The Santana also had twin lights.
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1st Jul 2020 10:46pm |
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| Andy T Member Since: 25 Aug 2017 Location: Bucks Posts: 230 
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I'm a yes-Man
It's ticking my boxes for New Defender that Mr McGoo couldn't I would be proud to have one on my drive alongside my Defenders. Just got to persuade the Missus..  2011 2.4 White 110 CSW LHD
1998 300TDi Wolf TUM 2015 2.2 Corris Grey 90 2009 2.4 Alaska White 110 Commercial - gone 2006 TD5 Barolo Black 90 - gone 1995 TD5 Green 90 - gone 1984 2.25 Marine Blue 88 |
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1st Jul 2020 11:36pm |
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| Black Puma Member Since: 31 Jan 2015 Location: Sydney Posts: 198 
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When Tata bought JLR. They bought a luxury brand. The Defender was not luxury, so it's no surprise the new Defender is a luxury stylised SUV.
The Grenadier is so promising, but they need to redo that front end. In fact, why copy the old Defender so closely at all. Instead come up with something better, more minimal, purposeful.... visually unique. It's a good try, but many elements look like a poorly copied knock off. They have all the ingredients right, some parts look great, but the team need to simplify and visually define utilitarian. The language of the Grenidier's purpose, the vehicles utmost DNA should be reflected in it's appearance. Not just a millimeter here and there to echo the old defender and meet safety requirements. Some people wont care what it looks like, but that doesn't mean that it can't look just right. Look considered and perfect for it's role. Come on INEOS, give us what launched Land Rover, but bring it to 2021 with a bang. The car should present not as what Land Rover threw away. The Grenadier should arrive as an example, of the greatest vehicle of this type - created by a brilliant British company. |
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2nd Jul 2020 2:41am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
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Jeep "won" their case in the USA, using the 1930 Tariff Act and as far as I can see it did so as a "domestic industry". So it does not look like it would set any precedent applicable to JLR to go after Ineos. https://www.defender2.net/forum/post836852...dra#836852 The claim from Jeep that Mahindra had infringed it's U.S. Trademark Registration was actually rejected. What was upheld was infringement of trade dress protection. From Wiki: "Trade dress protection is intended to protect consumers from packaging or appearance of products that are designed to imitate other products; to prevent a consumer from buying one product under the belief that it is another." Easy to do perhaps when you pick up a packet of Asda's chocolate orange sponge biscuits but surely nigh on impossible when purchasing a vehicle? |
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2nd Jul 2020 6:19am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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I'm not certain £20k would get you that much in terms of a newer larger capacity engine, auto gearbox, etc... However, having said that, I'm just reading some info in the online version of The Telegraph which suggests the "£30k to £45k" range for the vehicle variants is being pushed on: "the cost will be “nearer Raptor than G-Wagen,” says a spokesperson. To put that into perspective, Ford’s Ranger Raptor costs £42,000 without VAT in the UK. The G-Wagen starts at £92,000 with VAT (there’s no official commercial version in the UK), which means that the Grenadier will likely cost north of £50,000 without VAT." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/...-defender/ But then the article also states: "leaf-sprung solid axles"... 
"More than a billion euros of Jim Ratcliffe’s money has gone into the Grenadier" "the roof has nylon insert strips to protect the sheet metal." "The body is a mix of a steel safety shell with aluminium used for the bonnet, wings and doors." "hybrid (an off-the-shelf ZF system already exists), battery electric or even hydrogen fuel-cell drivetrains could be used eventually." "it has airbags and a pedestrian crash protection system" and that pub in Belgravia "was named after a soldier beaten to death after cheating at cards"! |
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2nd Jul 2020 6:23am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829  
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Here’s a thought. How many of JLR’s target market would consider replacing their New Defender with this? Not many, I’d suggest. World’s apart, both vehicle and owner
 Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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3rd Jul 2020 7:41am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443 
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^^ Agree, 100%.
If you asked the same question for the Defender's traditional market, the answer would be different. |
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3rd Jul 2020 7:47am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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^^^ To your last point, you can see that just by the response on these forum pages. This forum being the oracle for all things Defender. I think in 9 pages there’s been only one solid dissenter. Some others for the sloping bonnet and grille, some for the rear light, but of perhaps 50 regulars who’ve opined about the New Defender on a regular basis, almost all have given this the thumbs up. Ineos could not have hoped for more. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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3rd Jul 2020 7:53am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Depends on your definition of "not many" and whether it's a % of JLR's 100k per annum sales target or 30k for Ineos. Say it was 5% of JLR's target - that would be a whopping 16% for Ineos. As to who they would be then look at the Twisted market and I'm guessing there's a world wide market for a few thousand per year. Then we haven't driven it yet - a 6 cylinder BMW engine mated to an 8 speed auto may hit hard at the old defender issues of slow, clunky and noisey. I think the Ineos could hit at both the lower end of the new Defender market, where people are price sensitive, and also at the top end, where they are not, but this is either a 3rd or 4th vehicle and the appeal is it's utility/lack of compromise. |
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3rd Jul 2020 8:06am |
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| foggydave Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 263 
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You can add another one to the Like It Very Much group. Absolutely blown away with the design. It has kept enough of the old Defender, a unique design look not to be confused with any other motor on the market.
I am not sure but I think they are all going to be classed as utility and will therefore attract VAT which may raise the price too much. I was going for a Toyota Land Cruiser but will now wait to see how this one shapes up pricewise. Yes made my day looking at the Grenadier vidoes.  |
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3rd Jul 2020 3:24pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4216 
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Tax is not my specialist subject so can someone explain this VAT business? I thought all vehicles attracted VAT, but if bought by a qualifying business wanting to use the vehicle. the VAT could be claimed back. Is that not how it works? Interested to understand why being in a certain classification would make it more expensive because of the VAT 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS
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3rd Jul 2020 3:34pm |
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| lonewolf Member Since: 23 Oct 2013 Location: North East England Posts: 210 
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I agree, when the ‘new’ Defender was eventually unveiled the consensus was split in a way which didn’t exactly herald the arrival of the successor. The unveiling of the Grenadier has had a much warmer welcome imho. |
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3rd Jul 2020 3:39pm |
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