 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Spare wheel to carrier "alignment tool"... sort of |
 
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845  
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Hi all,
I don't specifically set out to ask weird questions... it just comes naturally! For the first time in a loooong time, I put my spare wheel onto a carrier! It must be months, if not nearly years since I did that last. It was surprisingly difficult! When putting a wheel onto a hub, the ring on the hub takes the weight initially, and then all you have to do is get the studs aligned. On a carrier, there's no such load bearing ring, so you have to get the wheel up there; jiggle it about with one hand and/or your knee; fumble with the other hand for the wheel nut balanced on the fog light; jiggle some more to get the nut onto the stud and into the wheel. That's how it struck me and I can't see how I'm doing such a simple thing wrong.... So, being one for labour-saving options where possible, I thought it would be so much easier to mount the wheel if it could be better aligned from the outset. I reasoned that some sort of stud cover, at the correct diameter for the hole in the wheel, would help. This would mean that the other two nuts could be put on easily. Armed with a measuring tool I went off looking for things at 29mm diameter and then cut 3 or four inches off the handle of the snow shovel....  Click image to enlarge Drilled a 16mm hole into it; Click image to enlarge Slotted it over the top stud on the carrier; Click image to enlarge So far, so good. Did it work? Yep - wheel lifted up, easily slotted onto the guide, and then put on the other two nuts. Excellent. The flaw in the design - and getting to my questions in a long-winded way - is that the wood is soft, so the weight of the wheel pushes it onto the threads of the wheel stud and it wouldn't just pull off. I had to get mole grips on for a bit of traction. But as a 'proof of concept' it worked really well. Now I can't believe I'm the first guy to think of this, so I googled 'spare wheel alignment carrier' and various versions of that, and have got nowhere. Has anyone else come across something like this?? If not I'll need to get one made up somehow. I think the key things are: 29mm outer diameter (or maybe 28mm to give 'wiggle room') 16mm dia hole down into the centre; some sort of rounded or not-so-pointy end, to allow the wheel to locate and then slide on easily; hard enough material not to get forced onto the stud thread; soft enough material not to damage the stud threads; some means of pulling it out once the other two nuts are in place. Variations on a theme would be to have it threaded too - so that it would unthread - but it really doesn't need that. Maybe to have a 'rounded' hex put onto it, so it could be turned off if necessary; Or maybe to have a coarse thread put into the outer end, so that a bolt could be put in a few turns and then gripped to pull the 'assister' out. For the material I'm thinking delrin, or some other sort of structural plastic/nylon type material - as I could probably order this in the right diameter, and it would be easy enough to work at home. On the negative side, I'm not 100% sure that it wouldn't sink into the threads just like the wooden one did. If not this, then possibly aluminium or even stainless steel? Have I just re-invented something that's already available, or is this 'Coronavirus cabin fever'? If it's new then 'all rights reserved' 
I know you could look at this and say: "but how often do you put your spare on and off...? Just man up!" I can see that. At the moment, the weight of the wheel isn't an issue for me at all. Juggling it isn't easy, but it's manageable. On the other hand, I'm not getting any younger... and I've seen posts from a couple of others who are 'annually challenged' on how difficult lifting the spare can be. Also, on once occasion when a previous wheel carrier snapped (!) my wife could barely lift the wheel into the boot, far less an extra foot into the air to meet the carrier. (Edit: I should say that I wasn't there on this occasion! I wasn't just standing by to see how she'd manage as a wee test!) So, food for thought. Ta Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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7th May 2020 12:28pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17453  
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It's easy with some machine tools, just make up a long "stud" with an OD the size of the OD of the centring portion of the alloy wheel nut, with an internal M16 fine thread, and a taper lead or chamfer on the outside edge. Make it long enough to stick well through the wheel, and cross-drill for a rod to assist unscrewing it.
Fit to the centre stud of the carrier, slide the wheel over it, fut two nuts, then unscrew the centring device and fit the final nut. Essentially exactly what you've done with your broom handle, except with steel. Alternatively get a Mantec Tufflift. |
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7th May 2020 1:20pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Thanks guys,
Yep - BW - you've described it exactly and more succinctly. In my defence, I had to set the context, and had some pics to use! For myself, I don't think it needs the internal thread (unless we're thinking of the risk of damaging the stud) and it would just make the process longer. I've had a look at the tufflift. I had thought they were just for the mantec or standard carriers. I'd need to be sure there were holes to match on the nakatanenga one. Even then though, there's still that final jockeying into the position which the guider/assister would eliminate. I think I'll need to find a friendly machine shop once this is all over. I could maybe try one with, and one without a thread. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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7th May 2020 1:25pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Hmm.
Ref the tufflift working with the Naka. wheel carrier, I've just been looking at Land Rover Anorak's thread where he posted pics of the tufflift he'd modified. I don't think these lifts will work on the Naka carrier in standard form. If it was the military one, I'd have to drill it like Darren has, and then, as I have no spacer nuts on my carrier, the outward bottom angle of that steel bracket would just be digging into the alloy of the wheel. However, I have come up with another cunning plan.... which would see me modifying the bracket again, or getting one made up, to allow it to 'hook' over the carrier plate. It might even be possible to then remove the tufflift altogether (I'd have to check if I'd still have access to the back of the two wheel holes used by the tufflift, once the wheel is up on the door) Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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7th May 2020 2:02pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17453
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I modified a Tufflift to work with my Allisport carrier, and it works a treat. It did result in me mislaying the stud widget that I made and described in my post above, though, since it was no longer needed with the Tufflift. I've no idea what became of it (it may by now have been transformed into something entirely different). The Tufflift is a great product, a very simple and old idea (in effect it is a "parbuckle" device), but blooming pricey and hard to find now.
Unfortunately I can't provide Tufflift/Allisport photos since I have now taken the carrier off with a view to blasting it and getting it either galvanised or powder-coated, since the original powder-coat was embarrassingly bad. The mod for the Allisport carrier involved drilling one new 16mm hole in the metal top part of the Tufflift, though, and was so easy a child could do it (provided that they are capable of drilling a 16mm hole through 4mm steel). |
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7th May 2020 2:46pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17453
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I would have though that if you used this kind of Tufflift ...
Click image to enlarge ... with a Naka carrier you could probably pass the top toggles (at the bottom in the photo) through the holes in the sides of the bar that sticks out of the back face of the wheel mounting plate and use it without any modifications. |
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7th May 2020 2:55pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Ah, I didn't realise you had actually made the 'widget' and were describing it.
Makes sense, and it does make me smile. I always say to my kids (boring them rigid, no doubt) that "man is a tool-using animal." If you're dealing with a job that's difficult, your brain should be turning to figure out an easier, or more elegant way of doing it - which is precisely why I butchered the broom handle! Best I could do with the other tools to hand. Parbuckling - gah! Should have thought of that myself. Back when I did some of my scuba training, parbuckling is one of the ways covered for getting a casualty back into a RIB. I've actually been pondering how I could bodge (or "fashion a rough prototype" depending on how generous you want to be..) a parbuckling carrier using bits of webbing, lock buckles, old net and some carabiners. Because I do have access to the back of the two unused stud holes once the wheel is on the carrier, I think I would be able to remove it completely when not in use - so that no-one in traffic behind me would have to look at it..! Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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7th May 2020 2:56pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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posts crossed.
I did think the mantec could be used that way - but I can't see them for sale at the moment? Not on the mantec or flatdog websites. What I'm thinking of is simply a length of webbing 'hooked' over the back of the wheel carrier. Attached to a sling (piece of old net) at one end with an adjustable buckle, and the other with a karabiner. The sling/old net would be the bit that holds the wheel. Two other lengths of webbing would fit at the other end of the sling, and go through the wheels just as with the manufactured ones. I still think my stud widget would be handy though.... Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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7th May 2020 3:01pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17453
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Yes, the stud widget is (or was, until I lost it or it was half-inched) a very handy tool, especially since you can could also use it to help align the wheel on the hub.
When lockdown is over and I once again have access to the trusty Triumph 2000 (Colchester variety, not the car) I might knock up another one. The Tufflift is in essence an extremely simple thing and you could improvise one very easily. You wouldn't even need a net as such, just creating a shape like the traditional ladder snow chain would do, you'd only need two "rungs" on the ladder. The important bit is the adjuster on the straps that go up to the carrier, since these are the things you need to adjust in order to make sure that the wheel arrives at the right height for the studs. I notice that Exmoor Trim is advertising Tufflifts at the moment (at a price that makes you blink) but only the type with the metal top bracket, which is the kind I needed for my Allisport carrier (which conveniently has a bolt in its structure in exactly the right place to mount the bar once the extra hole has been drilled). I would hope that one day these become available again, since they are very handy. If the design is not protected, anyone could make and sell something similar. The idea of something that could be removed after mounting the wheel is appealing, since you don't need it often and the back of a Defender is a filthy place to live. My next challenge I feel is to devise an easy way to get a spare wheel from the ground to the roof-rack without unacceptable levels of personal peril and injury, not an easy task. At the moment dragging it up a plank does the job, but it is not ideal by an extremely long chalk. Current thoughts are heading along the lines of a small version of the folding shear legs or gin poles traditionally found on the back of oilfield trucks (as drawn on the cover of this surprisingly interesting pdf). https://www.iadc.org/wp-content/uploads/20...-20101.pdf |
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7th May 2020 4:42pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1845
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Oof! That is a detailed pdf!
Before I'd looked at it, and when you'd outlined your requirement (getting a spare wheel to a roof rack) I thought of two things: some sort of 90' lever arrangement; and a trailer winch. In fact you'd probably need both. First thoughts would be a 90' arrangement in square section - a 'jib' effectively; with a plate somewhere for a trailer winch; on the end of the 90' degree section (which could be spun around to overhang the vehicle ) you'd need a pulley wheel to take the winch cable; on the other end, you'd need some sort of pad or T piece that you could easily/comfortably lever on with strength or body weight. The use of a winch means your levers can be much shorter. So the process would be: mount your right angle assembly to your roof rack; attach winch cable to wheel; winch wheel off rack; turn right angle assembly to overhang vehicle (probably to the side, but depends) lower 90' jib section to have winch pulley over ground and clear of vehicle lower wheel to ground. and then the reverse... ( that might be hard to follow, but I know what I mean....) the 90' degree section could possibly be foldable and even 'shortenable' for ease of storage, and you'd need some sort of matching "mount" arrangements on both your roof rack and the 90' gib/section. (not familiar with crane terminology!) This could be cr*p.  One of those occasions when a picture is worth 1000 words. Disclaimer: I've had a couple of GnTs, and some red wine, and then a couple of drams..... (not working tomorrow!) but maybe that's where the best ideas come from.
I haven't looked at the geometry or measurements - but I now have Mrk 1 son to hand - a 4th year Mech Eng and Design student who's a dab hand with CAD. If this strikes you as a not-daft idea, let me know and I'll see if we could both turn our thoughts to it. Whereabouts on your rack do you want to stow the wheel; what type of rack is it; and typically, what size wheel/tyre? On review, and before posting, this sounds heavy and clunky. I don't think it has to be. I haven't actually weighed my wheel and tyre, but it might be possible to do the jib thing in alu. square section. Without the mechanical advantage of a winch, I don't think there's any way to do this in a controlled/manageable fashion. I did also google something like 'spare wheel roof rack lifter'. I got some results - relating to wheel chair lifts - which were similar, but not identical to what I had in mind. I've probably just described, in lots of words, what you've got in mind..... Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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7th May 2020 10:54pm |
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| foggydave Member Since: 29 Nov 2012 Location: Midlands Posts: 263 
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The way I put my spare wheel on
I do have a towbar and ball fitted so the first stage is to lift the wheel and rest it on the tow ball. This allows me to alter my grip on the wheel to enable the final lift to the studs. Lift Wheel and aim to locate the top hole on the top stud, then pust the wheel towards the door. This will leave enough thread on the top stud to partialy screw the top wheel nut on. I then lift the wheel and pull it onto the top nut which allows me to screw the 2 bottom wheel nuts on. Another method You will find that when you put the top nut on you can jiggle the wheel about whilst tightening the top nut using the chamfer on the nut to lift the wheel. With the top nut on the bottom 2 will line up ok This works for me. |
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11th May 2020 6:38pm |
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