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Home > General & Technical (L663) > Poll

Do you approve of the new Defender - everything (including price) considered?

Yes

30%

[58]

69%

[132]

Total Votes: 190

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GREENI

Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10383

I voted YES!

The price is irrelevant, if I can't afford to buy something outright, I won't buy it, I don't do finance etc. So whether £30k or £100k I won't go out and buy it (read; I'm a peasant).

But damn, it's perfect!!!! Bravo Land Rover.

People who say it's not built to be used like an old Defender.....I certainly would, and would be proud to wedge it in some trees on a lane

12th Sep 2019 8:40am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

What puddle? wrote:
Ok, but:
Discovery Sport £30,000
Defender 110 £45,000

and look at the Range Rover Evoque starting from a similar price to the Discovery Sport.

There are 3 pillars in the LR brand structure - luxury (RR), leisure (Discovery) and dual purpose (Defender) you start there and then open your wallet and see what you can afford.

What puddle? wrote:
If you're correct, why do it? Why push the 110 into the Discovery bracket, and do what they've always done - which hasn't ended well? They should have kept the Freelander at Vauxhall Mokka prices. We all know they push all their cars upwards (money wise). Isn't the serious money in high-volume cars? Genuine question.

Hey, I've just tried to understand what JLR have pushed out publically. People can view the presentations and interviews and perhaps interpret them differently. It would be good to have those discussions on here.

Serious money in high volume cars - it seems it's more boom and bust and the stake to buy in is huge and only getting bigger.

Look at Ferrari - relatively low volume and highly profitable; of course you could look at Aston Martin as the opposite example! However, I'd ask you to look what the difference is. Ferrari growth has been organic, Aston has tried to buy it's way into a larger share of it's markets.

It's been a similar position for JLR - it didn't have any patience for organic growth, rather it went for a grand plan to make 1m vehicles and spent up all the upfront costs in terms of capital and human resources and then has suffered a few sales hiccups.

Last edited by Supacat on 12th Sep 2019 8:57am. Edited 1 time in total

12th Sep 2019 8:44am

RDR

Member Since: 27 Apr 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 592

The D5 was an absolute disaster for the Discovery in my opinion (and I own one) it lost that balance of practicality and comfort that made it sell so well steering to more outright luxury. My D5 is pretty much a Range Rover in fact they could have got away with calling it the Range Rover XL!

LR lost a lot of discovery 3/4 customers with the D5 and I think the 110 will help bring them back and that's where they are pitching it. My last D4 cost £66k, they sold a lot of them and that's exactly where they have pitched the 110. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV
D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold
D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold
D4 MY12 HSE - Gone
D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten

12th Sep 2019 8:51am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Supacat:

Evoque - £28,000
Discovery Sport - £29,000
RR Velar £41,000
Discovery - £43,000
RR Sport - 60,000
RR - £76,000
RR Sport SVR - £97,000
RR SVA - £135,000

Now, to me(!), the Defender should have gone into £27,000. What I mean by that is that it should have been built that way - as a £27,000 vehicle - a Jimny on steroids. Pitching it midway in the line-up and at Range Rover prices is just all wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree

Now left.

12th Sep 2019 8:55am

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

Those aren't the prices on the current website?

Click image to enlarge

12th Sep 2019 9:06am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

RDR wrote:
The D5 was an absolute disaster for the Discovery in my opinion (and I own one) it lost that balance of practicality and comfort that made it sell so well steering to more outright luxury. My D5 is pretty much a Range Rover in fact they could have got away with calling it the Range Rover XL!

LR lost a lot of discovery 3/4 customers with the D5 and I think the 110 will help bring them back and that's where they are pitching it. My last D4 cost £66k, they sold a lot of them and that's exactly where they have pitched the 110.

I agree! So the new Defender should have been called the Discovery! My point is that it is not the replacement for the Defender. I would have felt better if JLR had simply said that they were dropping the Defender as they couldn't build a cheap utility 4x4 anymore. Instead, the way they have gone, I'm now fully expecting a small 4x4 to be considered by JLR. Other manufacturers have done this. BMW made the 3 Series so large and expensive that they had to bring out the 1 series that is the size of the old 3 Series! Look a the new Vauxhall Astra - it's huge, and the Ford Focus! I know car companies do this, I just don't understand why.

The thing is, although I'm (half) expecting a new small 4x4 from JLR, they can't afford the development costs! Now left.

12th Sep 2019 9:06am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Supacat:
Carwow
https://www.carwow.co.uk/land-rover Is anyone seriously paying dealer prices anymore? There's another company (can't remember who they are) which even beats carwow. I almost bought a car from them earlier this year, but ended up getting a great deal on a used one. Now left.

12th Sep 2019 9:08am

oneten110

Member Since: 02 Jul 2011
Location: Wish I was still in France
Posts: 741

[/quote] I would have felt better if JLR had simply said that they were dropping the Defender as they couldn't build a cheap utility 4x4 anymore.[/quote]
The old Defender was not a cheap utility. It is not a Defender, it is a One_Ten

12th Sep 2019 9:16am

duckworthparts
Site Sponsor

Member Since: 30 Jun 2011
Location: Market Rasen
Posts: 631

A new 110 XS in 2015 was about £34k... https://www.facebook.com/duckworthparts

Send a paypal payment direct using this link www.paypal.me/duckworthparts

www.duckworthparts.co.uk
My Direct Line: 01673 849873
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Can also supply OEM & Aftermarket parts

Last edited by duckworthparts on 12th Sep 2019 9:18am. Edited 1 time in total

12th Sep 2019 9:18am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

oneten110:
It was compared to the new one! But I take your point. Last time I got a price for a 90, my dealer quoted me £26,000 but that was before they announced it was ending with no replacement in sight, then the prices went mental. Now left.

Last edited by What puddle? on 12th Sep 2019 9:26am. Edited 1 time in total

12th Sep 2019 9:18am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

duckworthparts wrote:
A new 110 XS in 2015 was about £34k...

...and Land Rover made a point of saying that it was so expensive (for a simple utility) because of the way it was hand-built. There's even a YouTube video of someone at LR saying that. They said, "If we can get the new Defender on a normal assembly line, and built largely by robots, and built abroad for cheaper wage rates..."

So what happened? I'll tell you what happened, they did what they've done for years and decided to push it up. Now left.

12th Sep 2019 9:24am

Ads90

Member Since: 16 Jun 2008
Location: Cots-on-the-Wolds
Posts: 812

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Keswick Green

I've been looking at other list prices, and a Land Cruiser (non-utility) starts at £40K, Touareg £47K, G-Wagon £91K, even the cheapest poverty spec 4WD Tiguan is £29K which isn't even a 4x4, so I see it was never going to be priced below £35K. (And yes, Carwow etc. but we're talking list prices, discounts will follow).

The new 110 is very capable and well spec'ed for it's starting price of £45K, so I am now less surprised when compared to the above.

Although I voted no as I was hoping for something more Defender-looking than Discovery-looking, if I could afford one in addition to my 90 I'd have one over any other modern 4x4.

12th Sep 2019 9:45am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17450

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

RDR wrote:
The D5 was an absolute disaster for the Discovery in my opinion (and I own one) it lost that balance of practicality and comfort that made it sell so well steering to more outright luxury. My D5 is pretty much a Range Rover in fact they could have got away with calling it the Range Rover XL!

LR lost a lot of discovery 3/4 customers with the D5 and I think the 110 will help bring them back and that's where they are pitching it. My last D4 cost £66k, they sold a lot of them and that's exactly where they have pitched the 110.

The D5 was no more a Discovery than the New Defender is a Defender. The D5 is the successor to the Freelander 2.

The D5 moved across to the Freelander space specifically to clear the Discovery space for the New Defender.

The Defender - i.e., utilility - space is no longer of any interest to JLR.

12th Sep 2019 10:12am

What puddle?

Member Since: 25 Oct 2013
Location: Reading
Posts: 952

Ads90:
Yes, Landcruiser actually starts at £31,247 on Carwow. It's damned ugly! The Defender 90 is expected to be from £40,000. I say again, to me, what we're seeing is the 'wrong' Defender. I would have built a Jimny on steroids, and priced it at around £30,000. But JLR seem to have done (sorry to repeat myself) what they do - pushed it up into a different bracket. And again, JLR can't drop a small 4x4 into the sub-£30k bracket as they haven't any money left for development of it. Now left.

12th Sep 2019 10:16am

Wheels

Member Since: 17 Jun 2014
Location: Perth
Posts: 2

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Aintree Green

I voted no, I think it’s a disaster for JLR. The potential to make something truly great was there and all they did was produce yet another luxury SUV, thereby narrowing their market considerably. I’m in the market for a new work vehicle & I was holding out to see what they came up with, very disappointing, looks like I’ll be going for the Jeep Wrangler. If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else.
2014 Puma 110
1960 S11 SWB
2013 KTM 1190 adv
2001 Moto Guzzi V11
1999 KTM 620 Super Competition
1973 Bultaco 250 Sherpa

12th Sep 2019 10:19am

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