 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Strange recurring starting issue 2.4TDCi |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17386   
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If you have the slightest reason to suspect that you've had water, or the "diesel bug", in the fuel tank it is definitely worth changing the VCV as a matter of routine. It is high precision and not very robust and water or dirt will knacker it.
The fuel system on the Puma Defender is poorly monitored and ig is very rare that a faulty VCV causes any DTCs. Usually it is the presence of rough running, poor starting, or misfiring but with no fault codes that indicates a VCV fault. |
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7th Mar 2018 11:33am |
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| BaileyJ Member Since: 07 Mar 2018 Location: Britain Posts: 15 
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Great ok thank you. From what I have read it does seem the vcv valve is very sensitive to anything other than clean diesel. I’ve got a new fuel filter already so I’ll drop the tank off and drain it and clean it out as best I can. Is it worth running it with an injector cleaner? For a tank at least in an effort to try and flush out any remaining foreign objects in the fuel system.
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7th Mar 2018 12:06pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295 
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Hello BaileyJ...and welcome to D2N
Re Tank out on a 90...with the observation that owners of the same vehicle, vintage, type etc. experience different levels of 'how easy that was to remove' and with possibly LR build tolerances playing their part... I needed to remove my tank (2.4 90) and that in itself became the main job (rather than the breather pipe replacement that forced the job). May be worth a look, if you tool up to do a full fuel system clean job on your 90 http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic25866.html Good Luck SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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7th Mar 2018 12:29pm |
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| BaileyJ Member Since: 07 Mar 2018 Location: Britain Posts: 15
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Wow that’s a brilliant write up! I’ll keep that to hand I think.
Abit of researching into the water in fuel issue has led me to find the Stanadyne water bowl kit(29899) for the fuel filter which seems like a good idea. Not the cheapest thing and the fuel filter has to be moved up but it might save future problems. |
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7th Mar 2018 1:30pm |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351 
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Timely post, in my experience the VCV valve makes the motor hunt or run erratically, but does not stop it from starting.
I have recently had issues of my motor cranking with not a sign of life happening. Try as often as you like it just cranks over. But if you pop the bonnet take a 12inch extension bar and a hammer, and gently tap the sensor on the back of the injector pump, all is well and it starts. It could be called the fuel pressure regulator valve but I'm not sure, thats my homework for tonight. But if one follows the fuel pipe that runs from the common rail down to whatever it is below and forward of the common rail, than that is where the relay is that I am talking and tapping about. Does anyone know the correct name and part number for this part. Mine also starts and sometimes blows 5lt light grey smoke, sometimes not. It doesn't use water and runs fine. So I presume the intermittent smoke is related to fuel pressure. The smoke is as intermittent and the lifeless cracking, just another land rover thing I guess. hope this helps My Defender and travels |
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10th Mar 2018 10:20am |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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homework done, and I would think this is the culprit
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LAND-ROVER-DEF...1438.l2649 trouble is the manual calls this the Volume Control Valve VCV. My car idles and runs smoothly, just occasionally won't start. So now I am confused more than normal. My Defender and travels |
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10th Mar 2018 10:56am |
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| BaileyJ Member Since: 07 Mar 2018 Location: Britain Posts: 15
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That is interesting. I'm working on it now and have just tried this twice but to no success. Still just turning over and no running. That is the valve which I am now about to change after I have drained and cleaned the tank out.
No new fault codes logged following this or since starting. Just the recurring P037D-29 Glow plug relay sense circuit General signal failure. I have just noticed when clearing the faults the temperature gauge does cycle upto half way and back down when cleared, don't know if this is normal? |
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10th Mar 2018 11:23am |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
have read old post re glow plugs
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58609....glow+plugs also 2.4 tdci engine have feed back to ECM from glow plug relay with fuse in line ( fuse 38 10 amp ) |
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10th Mar 2018 12:45pm |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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ahhh the ol ignition switch. Yes in the plod to make the defender on par with what a car should be continues. I have also ordered another switch. In the past I have had a random "just silence" issue when trying to start, and the Lucus Price of Darkness...and Silence appears to be the culprit.
When turned onto Glo for go the cars dash lights all look as they should, but when you turn to crank one gets not a scenic of motion. Its anyone guess how many times this happens before you get lucky and it starts, and anyone guess when the event would happen. This will be my 5th switch now, and they have all behaved in different manners. it would be great if LR we not so scabby on their parts build specs, or perhaps evolved for better over the 20+ years of production. first one I think seriously stumped LR. It took 8 weeks for them to replace a whole heap of electrical stuff on day 2 of ownership from new. 2 and 3, I would attempt to start in various rapid, slow start with long wait and short cycles, it was very random. By now much of the immobiliser system that can be turned off had been. 4 after the silent treatment, if I shut it down and try again and it always fired on the second attempt. But with this one when you turn off its impossible to go to accessory. You have to go to complete off and back to accessory. Lucus, Bearmack appear to be the same result. Of course I may have a contributing issue that crashed these switches but once replaced the car runs fine for 6 to 24 months before issue returns. But then this problem runs from 200Tdi models through to the last Tdci. Again think LR laziness plaguing and dissapointing owners for decades. My Defender and travels |
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10th Mar 2018 7:37pm |
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| BaileyJ Member Since: 07 Mar 2018 Location: Britain Posts: 15
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Ok well today I have had some moderate success. The fuel tank did develop into the main task, removing it was a real challenge. The tub had to be unbolted and lifted 3” to clear the tank. The tank was absolutely caked in crud.
 Click image to enlarge I pumped as much fuel as I could out before dropping the tank, while it was off I tipped the last bit out and there was a slight amount of water and some brown sludge lumps which did resemble the ‘diesel bug’. I changed the breather pipe and the overflow pipe while the tank was out. I changed the fuel filter after blowing all the fuel lines clear. I used a newly acquired vacuum pump to draw the fuel to the engine. For £12 it was brilliant! Combined with a small piece of 10mm stainless steel pipe I had it pulled fuel through really well. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Changing the valve is a real challenge without removing the inlet manifold but I struggled on and managed to remove it, the wiring plug was the most difficult part to remove. Anyway new valve is in and it did start eventually. I have got to charge the battery tomorrow and do a pump learn before I can really tell how successful today has been. But it started again so I’m slightly relieved. I’ll have to leave it to idle upto 75 degrees to do the pump learn. |
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10th Mar 2018 8:42pm |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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Well done.
I had a shop change my VCV valve, but beforehand had pulled the tank and cleaned it. I had a fungi which looked like black fish food inside. We also installed a drain plug which I have never used, but started using Castrol Fuel Doctor with every tank at the same time. This seems to have eliminated dodgy fuel for several years, however I also change the fuel filter with the oil every 10K km. Given I may be looking at replacing VCV its hard to say what or if any has made an overall lasting effect. I have the standyne water bowl and siren addition to the OE filter but have not got around to installing it. Its a mod that involves reposition the fuel filter otherwise it all hangs to low. But it appears its not water that kills these VCV sensors, its just impurities in the diesel, or water so fine the filter doesn't get it. As I have never had obviuose water drain out of the OE filter. Is frustrating it takes time to discover you have or haven't fixed the issue. My Defender and travels |
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10th Mar 2018 8:57pm |
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| BaileyJ Member Since: 07 Mar 2018 Location: Britain Posts: 15
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Another full day working on the defender.
The pump learn completed fine, when it eventually got upto temperature. Seemed to fix the issue. However this was not to be. The same issue still exists but it does seem to always start but it can crank for a while still. Still the same glow plug fault. I unplugged the glow plug relay and the big fuse and the sense fuse No.38 I believe which didn’t seem to make any difference apart from a grounding fault with the glow plugs which cleared when the relay was back in. Would a dud glowplug really cause a starting issue like this? Even even when hot surely the engine would just start as normal or run abit lumpy for a short time. When the glowplug relay and fuses are unplugged the engine did start twice. First turn of the key and then back to cranking but it ran fine. I’m completely baffled by this issue now, I did wonder if this engine has a fuel non return valve? And if the fuel is draining back down the lines away from the pump causing an issue. I think I’ll try and run a gravity fed fuel supply to the pump inlet hose at the engine and see if that makes any difference. There are no visible signs of a fuel leak anywhere but a dud fitting or a non return valve would cause an issue like this in my opinion. |
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11th Mar 2018 4:50pm |
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| dorsetsmith Member Since: 30 Oct 2011 Location: South West Posts: 4554 |
Is your engine loom in good order not been chafing against the lifting loop and so on
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11th Mar 2018 8:01pm |
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| BaileyJ Member Since: 07 Mar 2018 Location: Britain Posts: 15
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Engine loom is believed to be in ok condition but yet unchecked.
I’ve just been out and tried the fuel directly into the pump by gravity feed to eliminate any possible drawing issues. This didn’t seem to fix the issue, it started but wasn’t any better than before. |
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11th Mar 2018 8:33pm |
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