 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > 4 point internal vs 6 point external SD cage |
 
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| steve_c3 Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Hants Posts: 177   
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I looked at the different companies offering them and although SD was a bit more expensive than some, I preferred the way the tubes around the screen followed the bodylines a bit better and sit a little closer to the screen. It was always going to be a compromise between looks and function! AFAIK, SD don't offer a cage with the external front section that enters at the top of the B pillars unless you have a 110 hard top or 90 and can fit a B hoop. To get the internal rear passenger compartment protection connected to the external you need to have the version I've got which includes A, B and C pillar chassis mount points. I got it done at Mildenhall and grabbed a courtesy car from Enterprise for the week. 2002 Defender 110 CSW TD5 Last edited by steve_c3 on 18th Oct 2016 4:10pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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18th Oct 2016 3:25pm |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7908 
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 James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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18th Oct 2016 3:33pm |
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| Romadog Member Since: 07 Jul 2011 Location: Powys Posts: 1750 |
Cage in the link is similair to what was used on Camel Trophy Defenders. Allows Roof rack to be fitted easily.
The other comes as a 'Style' bar or when fitted to bulkhead/chassis at front and Bpost hoop at rear when using cage like fitted to 50th Anniversary Defenders http://www.safetydevices.com/expedition/pr.../276/1792/ |
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18th Oct 2016 6:48pm |
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| Romadog Member Since: 07 Jul 2011 Location: Powys Posts: 1750 |
Cage in the link is similair to what was used on Camel Trophy Defenders. Allows Roof rack to be fitted easily.
The other comes as a 'Style' bar or when fitted to bulkhead/chassis at front and Bpost hoop at rear when using cage like fitted to 50th Anniversary Defenders http://www.safetydevices.com/expedition/pr.../276/1792/ |
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18th Oct 2016 6:49pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
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I have had a CT Discovery with the safety devices intenal cage. The CT roofrack is fitted through the roof on the cage. Safety Devices do a good job on that but I noticed that the cage was fitted to the body and not to the chassis on the CT Discoveries.
On my 90 I have a modified North Off-road cage. I modified it slightly to keep it removable.  Click image to enlarge I also included an internal cross for strength. As I use my 90 a lot off-road I choose an external cage to give my some more body protection. I think that wasn't a bad idea as it doesn't always goes as planned. 
Click image to enlarge Roel 1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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19th Oct 2016 7:20am |
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| tuesdayfox Member Since: 23 Jun 2013 Location: Sydney,OZ Posts: 129 
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I have safety device 6 points external roll cage.
personally I wont prefer an internal because first of all, it will require engineering certificate because if not fitted properly, the internal cage could be lethal in a small accident (it happen before while my external roll cage is simply a glorified and over-engineered ROOF RACK. the beefy tubes are necessary to support the weight put on top of the defender because of the soft aluminium body secondly, I can hang stuffs on the cage like my recovery tracks and sometime shovel/axe/garbbage bags...... just my 2cents cheers Last edited by tuesdayfox on 20th Oct 2016 9:24pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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20th Oct 2016 9:19pm |
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| tuesdayfox Member Since: 23 Jun 2013 Location: Sydney,OZ Posts: 129
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also, with the lattes safety device 6 point external roll cage, it has a roof basket built in.
that said, it is not full length. but you can easily negate the need to put a full length roof rack on with adding a couple of supporting plate in section above first row (I put a flat tool box here when touring |
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20th Oct 2016 9:24pm |
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| Thon Member Since: 22 Nov 2015 Location: Salisbury Plain Posts: 696
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Just as a continuation to this thread, I am fitting my Safety Devices RBL 183 7SSS cage next week and spoke to my insurance company today to alter the cover. I am currently insured with LV.
It turns out the cage adds £4 per month to my premium, and for some reason they already have it listed as being chipped, so I may get that done too. Very straightforward process - they didn't want to know any of the details of the cage and class it as a "bodywork modification". I'll also write a thread on the installation, provided I don't f*ck it up royally  |
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9th Nov 2016 3:36pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17610 
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I will look forward to the installation thread!
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9th Nov 2016 3:52pm |
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| Stacey007 Member Since: 25 Sep 2015 Location: Cheshire Posts: 3800
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I'm interested also,
As it happens I just changed to LV insurance as I tried a few with a engine modification as I will ve doing this in the new year, they only add £2 a month... where as some will not insure it... I've the different wheels, steering wheel, interior bits, tow bar all listed. A plan were miles away on price? Post some pics of the cage fitting and final please  |
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9th Nov 2016 8:16pm |
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10383
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I opted for PP. I'll be spannering this on
Click image to enlarge |
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9th Nov 2016 8:30pm |
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| Thon Member Since: 22 Nov 2015 Location: Salisbury Plain Posts: 696
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It'll be interesting to see how they differ. I guess only SD offered the exact format I was looking for and a friend with a PP version suggested SD might be more straightforward to fit after he had some issues with fitting his.
I've already obtained the fitting instructions. It looks reasonably straightforward .... famous last words i'm sure. I am cheating slightly by "borrowing" a 4 post lift and have a 4 decade expert on hand the whole time. I bet I can still balls it up though |
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9th Nov 2016 9:10pm |
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| Thon Member Since: 22 Nov 2015 Location: Salisbury Plain Posts: 696
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So for those that are interested, here's the tale of my roll cage fitting.
I started off wanting to fit a cage for a number of reasons i'm sure are obvious. I have always admired the Camel Trophy 110 type, with the external element around the windscreen and front seat passengers, transferring inside with for the remainder of the vehicle. This is what I was aiming for: - It's just my personal preference, but I have never been a fan of the full external type, although I understand it may have some advantages with supporting the roof rack better. I spoke to Safety Devices regarding fitting it to a Puma (as is illustrated on their website) and they explained that it was fitted by a specialist and wouldn’t recommend it as many of the rear trim panels need trimming to fit. I told them I wasn’t bothered by trimming but like the design so decided to go ahead. SD very helpfully sent me some detail pictures of the trimming, which had been done very nicely. I now wish i’d checked the pictures a little more closely …. I ordered the kit - RBL183-7SSS - from Devon 4x4, who refused to deliver to my workshop as I was paying by card plus I hadn’t purchased from them before. I ended up paying by transfer, which meant that they could, which was just as well as I would have had no way of getting the 150Kg single crate out of the courier van. Click image to enlarge I reserved 3 days to get as far as I could, and had a 4 post lift and some expert advice (i.e. people to laugh at me when I f*ck up) at my disposal for those days. I knew it wouldn’t be enough though so I was just seeing how far I could get. Whilst I was stripping down I also wanted to fit a Nugget Stuff air intake system, which I also did. I unpacked the crate to find everything well wrapped and labelled, with instructions. That took and hour on its own. The truck went up on the ramp, wheels off, and then lowered as far as possible to make access as easy as possible. I then took a deep breath and started the strip down. Eyebrows (wheel arches) were first and took minutes, then sills which took a little longer as all of the fasteners were seized (naturally), then outer wings. Click image to enlarge Now the early 90/110 had very open engine bays, and very little clutter - the Puma is slightly different, particularly the N/S which houses the air intake for the ventilation ducting and heat exchanger. I reckon it must have taken me 3 hours to get them both off, such was the awkwardness - I did consider taking the whole wing off at one point but persevered. What a pain in the arse. Click image to enlarge Once it was stripped to this stage I could fit the bulkhead mounts, which poke through the wing and hold the captive plate that the external windscreen surround bars bolt onto. First you have to mark out a sacrificial plate and then cut out the marked area. This was completed without (much) blood being spilt, only that shed from my finger when I held the reciprocating saw slightly too low. You also have to chop the bottom of the wing off, including a riveted-in bracket. Click image to enlarge Once these brackets were fitted and riveted in place I could fit the lower mounting brackets that bolt onto the bulkhead outrigger. Of course these bolts were partially seized too …. Plus they couldn’t be withdrawn sufficiently due to the Gwyn Lewis mud guards that I had fitted, so they had to be removed too. Click image to enlarge The Nugget Stuff intake was then fitted, which proved reasonably simple. I did experience some issues with it though - first of all it doesn’t allow you to re-fit the standard air intake without drilling as the captive plastic holders are replaced by the Nugget housing. I had to drill new ones as I wasn’t at that time fitting a RAI. Secondly the adaptor tube that fits into the airbox intake has 2 diameters, one offset as an eccentric so you can gain more space between it and the engine. I duly fitted this but still found that the tube was tight against one of the engine bolts so had to wedge in a piece of sacrificial rubber tube to protect it (hopefully). There was no movement available on the airbox itself to increase the clearance as I subsequently found out, so I shall keep an eye on it and if it frets through will bin it. So once the air intake and bulkhead mount brackets were fitted, the wings could go back on, which was about as straightforward as removing them, i.e. not very, but we got there in the end. Click image to enlarge We then move “indoors” and remove the interior headlining(s), rear view mirror, sun visors, seatbelts (every part except the stalk), side and rear trims in load area, rear door strut, etc. Everything came out easily except for the 10 year old “Christmas Tree” fasteners for the headlining. They were reluctant to come out, to say the least, and bearing in mind how delicate the headlining is I was trying to be careful. Eventually they all gave in to my might trim tool but not after putting up a valiant fight. Bloody things… Next was the hoop behind the driver/front passenger seat. It only just fits inside the 110 and even then only with jiggling it about. It’s quite heavy and exceptionally unwieldy, so takes 2 to manouever it about without bashing the interior to bits. Once positioned the holes in the floor mounting brackets have to be drilled all the way through to the chassis, where shims are used to space between the aluminium floor and chassis. Once drilled it was clear that the spacing of the holes in the brackets had only lined up correctly on one side, so had to be re-drilled to fit with the corresponding chassis bracket. At the top it bolts into the B pillar upper seatbelt mount and below it butts up against the rear of the seat box so really can only go in one position. In marking up the position of the holes and subsequently measuring inside and outside it seemed that the outer bar would not meet up with the inner hoop by some distance, 3/4 of an inch in this case. Not an insubstantial amount when you're having to drill and 8 x 8.5 mm holes through your roof. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge A couple of phone calls to SD suggested that we should use the hoop to position the holes and that the outer bar would fit by tweaking. It was at this point that my 3 days were up and reluctantly leave it at this stage. Fast forward through winter into the beginning of spring and I ended up with no time (and to be honest, no will) to complete the job, plus needed the scabby roof painting, new seals everywhere to cure the leaks, new windscreen and re-sealing of the frame, and a full service, so made a deal with the workshop for them to complete the installation and works as described. I received a rundown of the day’s events every day and by the sounds of it I was wise to dodge the bullet. I often heard swearing in the background and i'm sure one day there was sobbing. Suffice to say that job took 9 more days to complete, but bear in mind everything from the waistline upwards came off for new seals, etc. The pictures to which I alluded that maybe I should have studied a bit harder I shan't post, but suffice to say, fitting the rear load area trim was literally impossible the way the pictures showed ... until we saw that they had cunningly used a slip sleeve to the rear hoop which allowed them to chop it in half and allow enough movement in it to slide the trim panels into place without cutting. As you can see from my pictures, we didn't have that luxury, but equally I didn't really care that they had to be cut. I’m very happy with the results of it but have been told in no uncertain terms that they will not be fitting another. 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30th Mar 2017 10:20pm |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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Agree, VERY AWKWARD. (installed an SD cage not so long ago myself) Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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30th Mar 2017 11:18pm |
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