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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7906   
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I was living a pipe dream this afternoon about having a 110 Utility as my next company car. Being a sensible chap I thought I had better check what it would cost in company car tax. I assumed it was a commercial and therefore cheap but the calculator seemed to think it would cost me over £300 per month
Are Utilities really classed as cars? James MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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15th Sep 2016 7:13pm |
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| JJ Member Since: 18 May 2009 Location: Winchester Posts: 932 
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As Alpha Bear says there is a fixed cost for Benefit in kind tax for commercial vehicles rather than the P11d and co2 calculations.
There is also the caveat that it is open to interpretation by your area tax inspector and there has recently been a case where the directors of the company all purchased Amaroks as company cars but didn't use them as anything other than a car, this was deemed as a tax avoidance measure and they were charged as company cars retrospectively. To fully comply make sure you use it appropriately and make up a simple log of commercial use and private use to justify it. HR064 Hampshire and Berkshire 4x4 Response |
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16th Sep 2016 7:43am |
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| pjb Member Since: 08 Apr 2009 Location: Sunny Oxford Posts: 1244 |
Its a shame that they did not have stronger accountants / tax advisors.
The rules are the rules it is not open for interpretation by HMRC, if it designed with a load capacity over 1 tonne then it is classified as a commercial vehicle provided it is still over 1 tonne with accessories fitted. See below guidance issued to IR employees - From 2002/03, when deciding whether double cab pick-ups count as cars or vans, HMRC will interpret the legislation that defines car and van for tax purposes in line with the definitions used for VAT purposes. The position in respect of earlier tax years remains unchanged. Under this measure, a double cab pick-up that has a payload of 1 tonne (1,000kg) or more is accepted as a van for benefits purposes. Payload means gross vehicle weight (or design weight) less unoccupied kerb weight (care is needed when looking at manufacturers’ brochures as they sometimes define payload differently). Under a separate agreement between Customs and the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), a hard top consisting of metal, fibre glass or similar material, with or without windows, is accorded a generic weight of 45kg. Therefore the addition of a hard top to a double cab pick-up with an ex-works payload of 1,010 kg will convert the vehicle into a car (net payload reduced to 965 kg). Under this agreement, the weight of all other optional accessories is disregarded. HMRC has also adopted this treatment. Customs has been in discussions with the major manufacturers as to which of their models will no longer be regarded as cars. Potential purchasers can obtain advice about the payload of a particular model from the manufacturer or dealer. If they request any more information, you should refer them to this page on the HMRC website (full address: ). USW are vans 2020 P300 HSE Last edited by pjb on 16th Sep 2016 11:55am. Edited 1 time in total |
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16th Sep 2016 9:17am |
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| JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7906
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Thanks all! As I work in agricultural construction it would certainly be used as a commercials intend use. Just shame the boss won't see it that way! James
MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers |
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16th Sep 2016 9:31am |
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| Alphabear Member Since: 10 Oct 2015 Location: South Wales Posts: 51  
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Hi JJ. The taxation of vehicles is based on their construction and not the way they are used. I have not seen a tax case as described by you but I cannot see how the usage of the vehicle would have been the deciding factor that a car benefit applied.
As hinted to in my post, if you have a double cab with less than 1 tonne payload or you change it so it has less than 1tonne e.g add more seats or add a hard top, then yes a car benefit could then apply. Otherwise, I would be happy to take up the case with HMRC as the legislation and HMRC interpretation is pretty clear in this area. Do you have a name for the tax case you quote? |
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16th Sep 2016 11:33am |
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| pjb Member Since: 08 Apr 2009 Location: Sunny Oxford Posts: 1244 |
Just as a slight aside for example a VW Transporter van with a second row seats in the back with a fixed bulkhead is a van / commercial vehicle because a load capacity of over 1 tonne, but if it is both an auto and 4 wheel drive, then load capacity is under 1 tonne then a local VW dealer said you risked it being treated as car
 2020 P300 HSE |
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16th Sep 2016 12:03pm |
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| JJ Member Since: 18 May 2009 Location: Winchester Posts: 932
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Hi Alphabear. No case study name that I know the name of, this issue came up in a seminar during an annual industry training session with one of our funders ( they financed the vehicles ) . So not a customer of mine.
It does sound like the OP is fully covered in this respect and it wouldn't affect his decision at all so all good  HR064 Hampshire and Berkshire 4x4 Response |
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17th Sep 2016 2:12pm |
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| Ryderoo Member Since: 28 Aug 2015 Location: South Oxfordshire Posts: 1666  
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I would have thought it was classed as N1 on the V5, this is the class for a commercial vehicle/van, it's excise class would be LGV.
My 90 hardtop is within these classes and is purchased through the business, full VAT reclaim and 100% first year capital allowance claim. I would have expected the Utility 110 to fall in the same class. Cheers Simon I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you 1990 110 TD5 county, my first Land Rover - gone 2012 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2014 Discovery 4 XS SDV6 - gone 2015 Evoque SD4 dynamic - Wife’s - gone 2015 Urban Truck 90 XS Santorini Black Hard Top - Reluctantly gone 2020 Discovery 5 Eiger Grey 3.0 SE - gone March 24 2021 Defender S D250 Santorini Black 110 HT - gone March 24 2023 Evoque P300e SE wife’s current vehicle |
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17th Sep 2016 5:55pm |
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| walfy Member Since: 29 Aug 2007 Location: Frome Posts: 2658 
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I run a 110 USW as a company car. Cost me nowhere near £300 month.
110 D250 SE HT
110 USW SOLD RRE HSE Dynamic Gone, wife killed it VOLVO XC60 R Dynamic with some toys Polaris RZR 900XP SOLD |
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18th Sep 2016 5:59pm |
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| Dasher Member Since: 12 Nov 2012 Location: Nottingham Posts: 30 
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I run a 2015 110 Utility XS as a company vehicle. It is classed as a commercial. As it is owned by the company then it was VAT qualifying at first registration. It is used 100% on company business - coffee with a client in Peterborough yesterday was a good enough reason!
Be careful if you are looking at running one and claiming the VAT back on purchase. The car HAS to be vat qualifying - it is not sufficient for it to be a commercial. If it was originally purchased and VAT paid but not reclaimed then it is, as far as I can tell, non qualifying. I happen to have occasional use for the road space and certainly need the 4x4 capability for business but these are not tax requirements - as has been stated previously - the status is on the vehicle and not the use. This one is my third Utility XS and I've never had a problem with the accounts. To me the Utility XS was god-send - I had a Disco II Commercial before this and in between had to put up with a non commercial Disco III as the vat qualifying Commercial Disco III (and for that matter Disco IV) was simply prohibitive. One further thing to watch - it is commercial vehicle and therefore if you tow on business train weight is likely to drop you into the Tachograph territory - this is definitely not worth the hassle unless you tow on business regularly and for distances of over 50KM - be very careful with this one. |
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19th Sep 2016 9:40pm |
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| datcullen Member Since: 15 Aug 2013 Location: UK & Italy Posts: 153 
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Very interesting thread. Looking to get back to a 110 (instead of the FFRR) and run a utility through our VAT reg business. Can anyone confirm that even if we purchase a 2nd hand utility from a VAT registered seller then I can claim the VAT paid back in full?
TIA Beau 110 UW - '15 2.2 90 - '85 V8 soft-top RRC - '84 5 door, Option Pack C, 33k miles from new --- Elise S1 - '00 Millennium SE Elan +2 - '68 kit built by my dad Panda 4x4 - '87 in Italy |
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21st Sep 2016 4:33pm |
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| pjb Member Since: 08 Apr 2009 Location: Sunny Oxford Posts: 1244 |
Would depend if first owner was a business that claimed the vat back
Dealer selling will advise if vat qualifying or not. Great company vehicles 👍 2020 P300 HSE |
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21st Sep 2016 5:15pm |
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| datcullen Member Since: 15 Aug 2013 Location: UK & Italy Posts: 153
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Thanks PJB
I understand that if the first owner isn't a VAT registered company then when they sell it on they cannot charge any VAT. But what if I was buying from the first owner that was a VAT registered Ltd company (but not a dealer)? In my understanding of VAT whenever a VAT registered company sells something it has to charge VAT. If it sells it to another VAT registered company the purchasing company can reclaim the VAT element. Or are vehicles a special class of asset for VAT purposes? Thanks! 110 UW - '15 2.2 90 - '85 V8 soft-top RRC - '84 5 door, Option Pack C, 33k miles from new --- Elise S1 - '00 Millennium SE Elan +2 - '68 kit built by my dad Panda 4x4 - '87 in Italy |
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21st Sep 2016 9:51pm |
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| pjb Member Since: 08 Apr 2009 Location: Sunny Oxford Posts: 1244 |
100% correct👍 2020 P300 HSE
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21st Sep 2016 10:24pm |
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