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Zinke



Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Scunthorpe
Posts: 670

United Kingdom 2003 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
So is the wheel slightly further over to the centre on the carriers with the high lift mount? I like the product but not keen on having the spare that far to one side, it looks funny to my eyes (thats just my opinion but it is going to be going on my truck) so would rather have it more central but understand why its done that way, so there is less stress on the hinges.

And you have a PM leeds.

Pete.
Post #50164 29th Dec 2010 7:58pm
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Vixen



Member Since: 16 Mar 2010
Location: NSW, Orstraya
Posts: 97

Australia 
leeds wrote:
First I suppose a couple of statements of interest.

1) I have used WVA/Safari Equip gear for a number of years on my own Land Rovers

2) I am a reseller of WVA/Safari equip gear. Their factory is about 2 miles away from where I live but apart from reselling some of their gear I have no other connections with the owners of WVA/Safari Equip.

Have used Safari Equip gear for a number of years including the swing away wheel carrier. The one on our red 110 is about 7 to 8 years old and carries a 255/85/R16 BFG MT on a steel modular. The red 110 has not had an easy life and has done tens of thousands of miles off tarmac. Have not experienced any problems with it and have had it modified to provide a mount for a HF aerial.

As a private individual they have made one offs for me so as a private Land Rover owner I am very happy with the service and quality of gear I have had from WVA. As a private individual have their diff guards, R+T sliders,wheel carriers etc

2) As a reseller of some of their gear I was in their offices about a week prior to Christmas. On a desk was what appeared to be the top bar of a swing away wheel carrier. I asked Jullian a partner in WVA about it. Yes they had experienced problems with some of their swing away wheel carriers. They normally sourced steel from a company which gets steel from UK/Europe. They had problems getting supplies of certain steel tube sizes from their normal supplier. An alternative supplier who got steel from India coud supply required tube and at a slightly cheaper price then normal supplier. Apparently all the failures in their swing away wheel comes from this batch of tube.

They are not the first company to have experienced problems with their goods after a change n supplier.

I will quite happily point out the pros and cons of any gear we sell WVA/Safari equip is no different.

Good points?

In general there stuff is well made and reasonably priced for the quality. i.e. their swing away wheel carriers varies between ca. �160-210. On ebay different makes varies between �130-280 (ignoring the alisport one at �600) The top mount is a long mount rather then the much shorter mount used by some other manufacturers.

Their protection gear is hot dipped galvanised then powder coated rather then the cheaper electro plated or just painted.

They are prepared to do one off specials. They do their best to resolve problems

Some bad points.
Their website! Lack of fitting instructions (they normally sell to garages etc and they assume that the fitters know what they are doing. I personally think they should at least put instructions on their website. Hot dip galv, they don't always check that tapped holes have not been clogged. Sometimes the fitting kits are a bit of a hit and miss affair.


Yes I can understand Vixen being annoyed and personally I do not blame her!


Yes as a reseller there has been a couple of minor issues which I have been able to resolve quickly. Probably helps that I am so close to their factory. Yes they have room for improvements

Hopefully that will help to clarify what has happened

Hope I have not overstep any forum boundaries


Brendan


Brendan....that was a carrier from Scorpion. I have no idea who made them for resale by Scorpion. I saw another similar one, which turned out to be made by WVA I think and made the comment that it might break also.....guess what? Owner checked his carrier and it was cracked in the exact same place Shocked

It is a simple thing to add more bracing, should have been designed with extra bracing. I just wonder how many others have broken.....surely the manufacturer would know of this fault? Pretty bad for the money we end up paying for this sort if stuff. No wonder so many people make their own. Unfortunately I don't have the skills to do that Sad
Post #50183 29th Dec 2010 9:27pm
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RLD



Member Since: 29 Jun 2007
Location: Lancs
Posts: 858

United Kingdom 
or be made out of better material lots of manufacturers only make things just enough to do the job but when you go of road the stress and strain they brake up i my self make equipment in small quantities but it will not brake like some of the stuff see for sale RLD fabricator of Hidden Winch Mount for D3/4 roof racks jerry can holders CB aerial mounts and much more and agent for Helsport Tents and gear
Post #50225 30th Dec 2010 9:16am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

United Kingdom 
Lets just be careful here please.

I have used the WVA swing away wheel carrier for many years, without problems so I personally have faith in the product and the design.

They admit they had a problem with a batch when they had to change tube suppliers.

Various items have failed on my Land Rover due to fatigue fractures/driver error/old age etc.

Vixen says the one which failed on her vehicle was from Scorpion. That raises the question is that one a WVA wheel carrier and is it one from the batch made with Indian tubing? That I can not answer.

However Scorpion had a reputation of suppling good gear from a reputable manufacturer, then taking the design elsewhere and having them made cheaper. Two examples spring to mind. Is that the case in Vixens spare wheel carrier? I do not know.

It is possible to over engineer items, put too much weight on a vehicle and cause other problems.

Like RLD I have seen equipment for sale that IMO should go straight in the scrap bin. It is however much easier for someone doing very small batch runs to maintain quality then a small engineering factory when they can have supply difficulties etc.

I have had a product part fail from another small UK engineering firm. Spoke to them and got a replacement outside standard warranty period no problem. Yes things do go wrong, but it is how the problem is dealt with that is important.

He who has never made a mistake has probably never made anything. (Probably horribly misquoted)


Brendan
Post #50236 30th Dec 2010 9:59am
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mse



Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5038

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey
leeds wrote:
Lets just be careful here please.

I have used the WVA swing away wheel carrier for many years, without problems so I personally have faith in the product and the design.

They admit they had a problem with a batch when they had to change tube suppliers.

Various items have failed on my Land Rover due to fatigue fractures/driver error/old age etc.

Vixen says the one which failed on her vehicle was from Scorpion. That raises the question is that one a WVA wheel carrier and is it one from the batch made with Indian tubing? That I can not answer.

However Scorpion had a reputation of suppling good gear from a reputable manufacturer, then taking the design elsewhere and having them made cheaper. Two examples spring to mind. Is that the case in Vixens spare wheel carrier? I do not know.

It is possible to over engineer items, put too much weight on a vehicle and cause other problems.

Like RLD I have seen equipment for sale that IMO should go straight in the scrap bin. It is however much easier for someone doing very small batch runs to maintain quality then a small engineering factory when they can have supply difficulties etc.

I have had a product part fail from another small UK engineering firm. Spoke to them and got a replacement outside standard warranty period no problem. Yes things do go wrong, but it is how the problem is dealt with that is important.

He who has never made a mistake has probably never made anything. (Probably horribly misquoted)


Brendan


Dont have anything to do with WVA do we... Mike
Post #50237 30th Dec 2010 10:10am
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

United Kingdom 
mse wrote:

Dont have anything to do with WVA do we...


As stated in my earlier post

Quote:


First I suppose a couple of statements of interest.

1) I have used WVA/Safari Equip gear for a number of years on my own Land Rovers

2) I am a reseller of WVA/Safari equip gear. Their factory is about 2 miles away from where I live but apart from reselling some of their gear I have no other connections with the owners of WVA/Safari Equip.




I am not related to the owners of WVA, I do not drink in the same pub as them or socialise with them apart from when I visit their factory or chat to them at a show.

If you read my earlier post I also criticised them on various aspects

I hope that is clear enough.

Brendan
Post #50326 30th Dec 2010 4:57pm
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mse



Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5038

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey
leeds wrote:
mse wrote:

Dont have anything to do with WVA do we...


As stated in my earlier post

Quote:


First I suppose a couple of statements of interest.

1) I have used WVA/Safari Equip gear for a number of years on my own Land Rovers

2) I am a reseller of WVA/Safari equip gear. Their factory is about 2 miles away from where I live but apart from reselling some of their gear I have no other connections with the owners of WVA/Safari Equip.




I am not related to the owners of WVA, I do not drink in the same pub as them or socialise with them apart from when I visit their factory or chat to them at a show.

If you read my earlier post I also criticised them on various aspects

I hope that is clear enough.

Brendan


I got it...i was being sarcastic - it came across just fine that there was a vested interest Whistle Thumbs Up Mike
Post #50337 30th Dec 2010 5:14pm
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Vixen



Member Since: 16 Mar 2010
Location: NSW, Orstraya
Posts: 97

Australia 
leeds wrote:


Vixen says the one which failed on her vehicle was from Scorpion. That raises the question is that one a WVA wheel carrier and is it one from the batch made with Indian tubing? That I can not answer.

However Scorpion had a reputation of suppling good gear from a reputable manufacturer, then taking the design elsewhere and having them made cheaper. Two examples spring to mind. Is that the case in Vixens spare wheel carrier? I do not know.

Brendan


Not just 1 Brendan....but 2 Shocked Both the original AND the replacement broke in exactly the same place!! And as I stated, the other one I know of was a WMV one and it also broke in the exact same place, which sort of makes me think it is more a design fault.
Post #50410 30th Dec 2010 10:04pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

United Kingdom 
Design fault or a batch made from substandard Indian metal?

Personally I think the latter.

As stated previously I have had them on my vehicles for a long time and that includes many thousands of miles on the corrugated roads of Australia and that includes the Simpson Thumbs Up

We might have to agree to disagree re design fault or a material batch problem however.

Brendan
Post #50411 30th Dec 2010 10:12pm
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Vixen



Member Since: 16 Mar 2010
Location: NSW, Orstraya
Posts: 97

Australia 
So Brendan....does this mean you are saying both the Scorpion ones and the WMV ones are one and the same product and BOTH made from inferior Indian steel?

BTW...if interested, here is the WMV one that broke

http://landytown.myfastforum.org/ftopic3931-0-asc-20.php
Post #50412 30th Dec 2010 10:15pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

United Kingdom 
WMV or WVA?

Scorpion went bust before we started our business.

As I said earlier I do not know if WVA supplied Scorpion. I do know they supply many other companies as WVA are a manufacturing business who mainly supply the trade.

Scorpion did have a reputation for using other peoples designs as I said earlier, I can think of two examples when they did that.

As I said earlier WVA/Safari Equip have had a problem with their wheel carrier when they changed supplier due to difficulties in getting tube from their normal supplier. This is what I was told by one of their partners just prior to Christmas. The problem appears to be associated with this alternative source of tube.

They are not the first company to have problems when alternative sources of materials are used.

(In my previous existence we landed up telling an polycarb emergency light manufacturer to solve the problem of his lights falling off the ceilings by getting a good supply of polycarb and sticking to one decent moulder. He did not like our conclusions when we handed him the bill!)

We have the WVA wheel carrier on both our 110's and the red 110 has done at least 100,000 miles with many tens of thousand of miles off tarmac with a 285/85/R16 on it.

So personally I am happy with both the design and quality of the WVA spare wheel carrier.

Yes I will criticise WVA on points which I think it is valid to do so. I will also point out the good points as well. As a trader I will do that on any items we stock/sell

I hope that helps

Brendan
Post #50418 30th Dec 2010 11:00pm
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MK



Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2420

Chile 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White
My setup. No vibration problems at all and and fact with 285`s BFG the door stands open.


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 Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later
Post #50491 31st Dec 2010 1:48pm
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Vixen



Member Since: 16 Mar 2010
Location: NSW, Orstraya
Posts: 97

Australia 
[quote="leeds"]WMV or WVA?

Brendan[/quote]

Apologies Brendan, it was WVA...still, there is a company over here that makes a similar design (don't recall the name) and they have similar breakage problems. MY LR man won't even install them unless he adds re-inforcing bracing first.

If it was a material supply problem, do you approx know when the problems ones were made?

Note...I am not knocking you at all, I am sure if you did not sell these products and had 2 of them break on you, you would likewise warn people against buying them Wink

I quite liked the carrier, but it was crap to have 2 of them break. I'd have one of similar design but would want something with more bracing across the points that take the weight of the wheel. Mind you, not much good on our rear with a series 2 piece door n tailgate Wink
Post #50579 1st Jan 2011 1:48am
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