 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Cobra Cat 2 Immobilizer |
 
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1822   
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As it already has a thatcham act 2 fitted, why not put a cat 1 in while you're doing the work????
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13th Jan 2013 5:10pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
You will need to totally disable the 10AS settings in the settings menu with a diagnostic tool otherwise you will get conflicts with having two active alarm systems.
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13th Jan 2013 5:12pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610  
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Ask them via their query service for a definitive answer. Mind you if you are using an accredited fitter they should be able to tell you too.
http://www.cobravehiclesecurity.co.uk/prod...-8510.aspx **Edit** Sorry Brian didn't mean to conflict with your answer. Posted at the same time. If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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13th Jan 2013 5:12pm |
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| borderterrier Member Since: 09 Dec 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 1677 
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Thanks guys, I knew it would not be simple like I was the last time I fitted one of these to a 300 Tdi!
Steve |
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13th Jan 2013 5:15pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
@K9F,
@borderterrier, because the 10AS is integrated into the IPAC and EMS the system has to be disabled for the new system to work properly. If you fitted the new system in tandem then you would still need to keep the LR keyfob next to the ignition otherwise the passive immobilizer would either not let you start the Puma or would cut the engine. Then there are conflicts arising from what circuits you fit the new systems immobilizer too as they will be the same circuits as used by the 10AS, only because there aren't that many to choose from. 
Best thing to do is get a accredited fitter to fit the system as they will have the necessary diagnostic tools to disable the 10AS as well as setting up the new system. Plus you keep the Thatcham accreditation by having the system fitted by an approved installer, they give you a fitting certificate to pass onto your insurance and you also need this to make a warranty claim on the system should it fail. |
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13th Jan 2013 5:28pm |
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| borderterrier Member Since: 09 Dec 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 1677
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Lorryman thanks very much. I am back to UK in Sep and shall get it fitted professionally. Steve |
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13th Jan 2013 5:42pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888  
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There's no reason the factory immobiliser would need to be touched or even aware of the other system's existence as both have their own independent means of disarming. The very last thing you want to do is disable the factory immobiliser in any way. I can't think of any scenario where one would effect the other with just an immobiliser. Obviously this assumes you are using both - if you're thinking of replacing the LR one with a new one, that's a whole different ball game !
If you are fitting it yourself then the only thing you need to be wary of is bypassing the 10AS immobiliser circuit with your additional one. The 10AS only disables a single "normal" circuit - the starter circuit, which it does by interrupting/providing the earth path for the starter relay. If you choose to also disable that circuit with your additional immobiliser then make sure you put the new one in series with the 10AS, not providing a parallel route - you'll need to do that somewhere between the relay and the 10AS. Alternatively you could interrupt the 12v feed to the relay circuit. Personally I would ignore the starter inhibit, let the 10AS handle that, and use the additional immobiliser on different circuits, the fuel pump and the main relay being the obvious ones. Let the starter circuit rely on the 10AS. You might also consider interrupting the communication between the 10AS and the ECU with the additional immobiliser, that's not for the feint hearted but can be very effective. Sadly two circuit immobilisers seem to be "the norm" nowadays, with a 3 circuit one you can be a bit more creative. On a 4 circuit Clifford I've even been known to interrupt the link between the ECU and the diagnostic plug. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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13th Jan 2013 5:44pm |
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| borderterrier Member Since: 09 Dec 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 1677
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I was going to break into the fuel pump circuit that's all. I figured that 2 x Cat 2 devices would slow the
 down. My mechanical skills are limited to just that, mechanical! All this new circuittrickery in the new Defenders is beyond me, but I did think that I could find the fuel pump circuit and break into it quite easily.
Steve |
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13th Jan 2013 5:48pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888
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Some of the immobilisers aren't up to switching the fuel pump on their own, if in doubt use a relay. For best security "hide" the additional relay somewhere between the normal fuel pump relay and the fuel pump that is operated by the additional immobiliser. It is a matter of seconds for someone to bypass a relay but takes much longer to find a hidden one and bypass it. If you want a relatively quick and easy additional circuit to break with the immobiliser's second circuit, tap it into the inertia switch circuit. It's a good way of stopping the engine running and might hold the scumbags up for a couple of minutes if you're lucky. It's the best circuit to use when fitting an FIA cutoff switch to stop the engine too. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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13th Jan 2013 6:04pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
**EDIT***
Deleted content as it is an open forum  |
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13th Jan 2013 7:41pm |
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| derbywill Member Since: 25 Mar 2010 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 560 
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I didn't think pumas had tank fuel pumps and I wouldent tap into the wiring for the high pressure fuel pump, it would be better to tap into the inertia switch side
Will 2005 90 XS 1954 86'' Series 1 tilt 1968 88” 2A 200tdi 2002 110 Hardtop |
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13th Jan 2013 9:40pm |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
Inertia switch??? On a Puma?? Never seen one on a Puma, always thought the Td5 was the last defender to have them fitted as standard, mounted on the bulkhead??
The Puma doesn't have a lift pump to get the fuel from the tank to the pump, instead it uses the low pressure side of the high pressure pump to create a vacuum to draw the fuel. The volume control valve (VCV) is controlled directly by the EMS and apart from the Temp sensor these two plugs are the only electrical connections on the pump. I suppose you could have the VCV going to earth to close the valve, but if the EMS is telling the valve to open and the immobilizer has it closed by going to earth then I can see a few issues developing as well as tested dtc's and the MIL lamp illuminated.
@borderterrier, personally I would get the cobra system fitted by an approved dealer, that way you will have someone to go back to if they tie the immobilizer into a circuit that can cause issues with the EMS or interferes with the standard operation of a component system. Just my tuppence worth. |
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13th Jan 2013 10:22pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888
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Sorry, yes, you're right about the inertia switch, had my TD5 head on
 It was the mention of the electric fuel pump that kind of sent me off in that direction ! http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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13th Jan 2013 10:32pm |
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