 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.4 Puma (2007) Not Starting |
 
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 89   
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Original problem was the dead battery as shown by the stater relay clicking. Now it is immobilized though it wasn't before as the stater relay clicked. Something you have done to "fix" it has set the immobilizer.
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30th Sep 2024 3:02pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8029  
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Where are you?
So it bumped started ok then? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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30th Sep 2024 7:58pm |
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| Tea_and_Biology Member Since: 03 Jun 2024 Location: Oxford Posts: 11  
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Yeah, bump starts fine. So battery, ignition system, and fuel delivery all fine. Issue is either the motor, solenoid, or the wiring post-relay - still working on trying to get access to the motor itself to wire gap it, to confirm whether it's the solenoid.
Currently in the countryside near Wrington, Somerset. |
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30th Sep 2024 8:15pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20367
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What is the battery voltage sitting at now?
It might be a dead cell and the battery just isn’t holding its voltage, the cure will be a new battery possibly. 019 type such as Yuasa or similar, if you get a new battery keep it disconnected until you’ve fully identified where the parasitic draw is, unless it is the starter at fault, in which case if the battery voltage is looking okay and the connections are checked it will need replacing. You’ve got it running, with means alternator charging voltage is present (presumably?) but unless it ran for a very long time it won’t necessarily replenish the battery state of charge. Which will be why you then can’t start again when turned off. In which case if it is still sitting way lower than it should it will still be a problem. It does look a bit like this company started these issues you’ve had, and as the battery is sitting at below expected specs at rest, then I suggest there is excessive current draw at rest. So there is a permanent live there present at rest drawing current, some things do pull a little but it shouldn't really be over 60mA. You can you can check this with Multimeter by removing a battery post I.e ground and test between the clamp and post to see what’s being pulled 100mA is 0.1A current draw as an example. If excessive current draw is present, you need to find which feed is pulling the current from and isolate / disconnect it, and logic suggests a permanent live to the new equipment, which will likely be in the very near vicinity of the live battery post and fused. Is there a reason why once started you didn’t head home? If it’s running and there is a voltage exceeding 13v minimum when running, you’ll be good to go at least to get home. Admittedly fuel collection might be an issue if that is required, but I’m sure the public would understand if you stopped at a fuel station and couldn’t move off straight away just once. 
Hindsight is to have monthly RAC or similar recovery.  $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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30th Sep 2024 9:20pm |
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| Tea_and_Biology Member Since: 03 Jun 2024 Location: Oxford Posts: 11
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Spent a good 4 hours just trying to reach the solenoid terminal without success. Can't see it; can just about feel it with the tips of my fingers, maybe, but trying to attach a multimeter probe / length of wire etc. to even get a reading is proving impossible. Rachmaninoff sized hands, 'innit - just ended up with bloody, scratched hands and forearms.
Which, if any, of the assorted tubes obscuring the starter motor can safely and easily be removed without jeopardising the ignition process? Might improve access, but I'm assuming none. Any other tips for checking the solenoid function? Otherwise, the + terminal to the starter motor is reading 12.6+V, and the negative earth reading 0.1V. There isn't a chance in hell I could safely bridge a wire between the + and solenoid terminals given I can't see nor really feel what I'm doing. > Is there a reason why once started you didn’t head home? I don't have a home. Been moving place-to-place, mostly house-sitting, while converting this vehicle into a camper. Best I could do was move it to the car port in the neighbouring house. Anywho, disconnected the third-party immobiliser again; it's not drawing any power, and the battery is stable at around 12.6-12.8V. |
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1st Oct 2024 1:45am |
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| jbcollier Member Since: 29 Apr 2024 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 89
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Ok, you don’t have to get to the solenoid. You can do the test at the other end of the wire at the starter relay. The starter relay lives beside the battery. Unfortunately I’m away right now and can’t give you more specific instructions. Hopefully someone with access to the wiring diagrams can help you with which relay and what the wire colours are.
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1st Oct 2024 2:20am |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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I thought you had already accessed the starter relay..in your first post.. the clicking relay with nothing happening..
You said a wire had been tapped into.. It would make sense that that wire was on the relay coil circut..the same relay should have a wire that runs to the starter motor solenoid .. All that aside , I'm a bit unclear about the type of immobiliser you have had fitted..you seem to indicate they have remote access to it, in your posts ..if that is the case you really do need to get them out or the vehicle back to them..have they fitted a control unit with a sim in it..do you have phone access to it yourself?? |
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1st Oct 2024 7:40am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8029
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Put 12v on the starter solenoid wire at the relay output and see what happens.
Or put 12v straight to sm from jump leads. You can get to it, it's just limited access. The sm can be changed without taking engine out, it's been done lots of times so you can get to it.your not currently near me if you had be closer could of come out. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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1st Oct 2024 8:24am |
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| Tea_and_Biology Member Since: 03 Jun 2024 Location: Oxford Posts: 11
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It works!
I couldn't tell you *exactly* what fixed it, but having failed to get at the starter motor solenoid terminal (again, MASSIVE hands), I systematically went through the starter circuit within the fuse box and under the centre console using these schematics: https://www.lrworkshop.com/wiring-diagram/...ing-system Wire-by-wire, removed every connection, cleaned the ends, tested each one (and every relay and fuse), twisted the relay pins a bit before reconnecting etc. etc. - I did find a short exposed strip of wire (red/white going into the starter relay C0151-86) which was making contact with the sheathing on another wire; wrapped that up with insulation tape. Further, the vehicle was out of the rain for the first time in a week and perhaps had some chance to dry out. Otherwise also had the battery disconnected overnight. In any case, turned the ignition and it fired up. It's still slightly intermittent - about 5-10% of the time this morning it doesn't start following cranking (but it does crank every time; just occasionally peters out), but when I keep trying it eventually coughs through. Think it's a slightly off connection not providing enough power. I did a slightly bodged job, just to get it working, so I'll go back and neatly trim and better connect the assorted cut/resealed wires and hopefully that'll be that. On the bright side, I have a spare starter motor and a nanocom diagnostic tool coming in the post today to add to the ever growing pile of assorted Landy bits. Thanks for the help all! I don't think there's anything particularly useful in this thread compared to others w.r.t solving a starter issue, so to prevent this poisoning search engine results and wasting future readers' time, might be worth deleting? |
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1st Oct 2024 11:29am |
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