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Home > Finance & Insurance > Insurance and Green Laning - thing of the past?

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blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16947

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

custom90 wrote:
...
If for example a Farmer said you could access their land say after harvest or a fallow field, then that’s where you would have to be careful. The farmer would have their own insurance on their land.
However, if you were given permission aka permissive access and then say you accidentally rolled it there then you’d have big, big problems....

If you are driving on private land to which the public does not have access then there is no legal need for insurance (nor tax and MoT) but your normal on-road insurance would probably cover conventional activities, but not any kind of organised multi vehicle event. If however you are on private land to which the public has access, whether free or by payment of a fee, then the Road Traffic Acts etc now apply and you must have the full works, i.e., tax, MoT, insurance, licence plus seatbelts etc. Again your normal insurance will generally cover this provided you are not using your vehicle.in any kind of trial or competitive event (otherwise you wouldn't be covered in car parks etc).

In the former case the land-owner does not require any insurance either, however in the latter the land-owner should have public liability insurance (as a minimum). Unless the damage to your vehicle could irrefutably be attributed to the land-owner's negligence you would not have a claim against him or his insurance.

This thread seems to have strayed rather a long way from the OP's question!

Bottom line normal insurance will cover green-laning but not something like RTV trialling.

7th May 2024 11:02pm

Garthlands

Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 22

Not that I condone or have any experience of such………
But I might possibly have heard the odd thing or two about having bashed ones LR or possibly even having really seriously dented same by having it the wrong way up, drag it to the nearest kings highway with an appropriately sized ditch, chuck it in there and call the AA. Job done 👍
Minor scratches should of course be attributed to your appropriate local supermarket trolley recklessness.
Blimey, that does all make me seem like a right dodgy chap!!🤣🤣🤣

7th May 2024 11:34pm

sasdiscos

Member Since: 22 Jul 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 126

When I had my 90 off road truck. I paid extra for off road and pay and play day insurance.

I don’t want a serious accident to happen and not be covered.

Steve.

8th May 2024 8:39pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 19670

As always superbly and articulately explained by Blackwolf.

Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨‍🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧

8th May 2024 9:52pm

Puma_MOG

Member Since: 08 Sep 2017
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 126

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Fully agree and a big thank you to all who helped put my mind at ease.

I know the Defender is capable for much more than I will use it for but I do enjoy a scenic green lane run from time to time.

9th May 2024 5:35am

sasdiscos

Member Since: 22 Jul 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 126

https://blog.howdeninsurance.co.uk/green-laning/

9th May 2024 7:08am

pjm-84

Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 645

As noted in the above....

Ironically I was thinking about speed limits whilst riding along a green lane the other day and what that legal position was. I prefer to be respectful to the lane / conditions.....if I want to race than I'll go to an Enduro or MX track

9th May 2024 9:53am

Chicken Drumstick

Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 554

The legal limit will be the posted limit as per any other road, so if it starts in a 30mph zone and isn't posted any different, it would be 30mph. If it is NSL then it would be 60mph.

However most lanes are not suitable for high speed and I'd guess walking pace to about 20mph would be a sensible speed range for most unpaved sections.

9th May 2024 10:17am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16947

Remember also that whilst you may not be breaking a speed limit on an unsurfaced right of way, you will undoubtedly be falling foul of other aspects of vehicle-usage legislation such as driving without due care and attention, dangerous driving, driving in a manner which inconveniences or causes danger to other users, and so on. There are so many rules now that almost everyone is doing something wrong nearly all the time when driving.

Plus you would be behaving like a total to55er and doing yet more inestimable harm to the reputation of 4x4 owners, and accelerating the time when all such use is completely banned. I sincerely hope (and expect) that no-one in the generally cultured forum would dream of such behaviour!

9th May 2024 12:03pm

Mr Fox

Member Since: 10 Sep 2011
Location: green & pleasant land
Posts: 1037

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Keswick Green

It may have been mentioned but I did wonder whether an insurance company would approach a claim differently if:

scenario one: insured parties drives down a green lane as an individual and has an accident and wants to claim

vs

scenario two: insured party takes part in an organised green-lane tour, hosted by a commercial company, and has an issue that results in a claim.

As for the link above, Howden state:

"Because insurers consider green laning and off-roading riskier driving, it’s unlikely that your standard car insurance policy will cover you on green lanes."

I'd like to see how they enforce that in the place of a claim, hence my question above; however, knowing someone who has just had a claim rejected on their home insurance because the insurance company said they failed to declare that the home owner had failed to mention they were operating a business from the home (which had no relation to the claim), they seem to try to weasel out of paying if they can.

9th May 2024 12:37pm

pjm-84

Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 645

Agree...hence the consideration element and representation.

On a bike its easier to carry more speed but much much easier to fall off.

9th May 2024 12:38pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16947

An organised green-lane tour could easily be considered to fall into the "organised event" exclusion that some policies have, despite being non-competitive.

I am not aware that there is any way apart from a specific exclusion that an insurance company could wriggle out of paying a claim if you are exercising your legal right to "pass and repass" along a public right of way, irrespective of the nature of the surface. They can no more reject a claim from damage occurring on a green lane than they could damage occurring on an A-road simply by virtue of the location.

It is possible that they could reject a claim on the basis that you knowingly exposed your vehicle to a degree of risk that a normal person would realise was likely to be damaging and should be avoided. That being said I have heard of people who have successfully claimed after driving their cars into floodwater so deep that it was obvious that the car would be destroyed, something I would put in the above category. This is now specifically excluded from most policies for this reason.

I am not aware of any policy which requires the policy holder to prove that they are not stupid, something which is perhaps unfortunate.

Incidentally I think anyone who would consider organising a green lane tour without having specific public liability and third party insurance would fall well into the "stupid" category. The risks in this litigious age are simply too great.

9th May 2024 1:32pm

Mr Fox

Member Since: 10 Sep 2011
Location: green & pleasant land
Posts: 1037

blackwolf wrote:
An organised green-lane tour could easily be considered to fall into the "organised event" exclusion that some policies have, despite being non-competitive.

...

I am not aware of any policy which requires the policy holder to prove that they are not stupid, something which is perhaps unfortunate.

Incidentally I think anyone who would consider organising a green lane tour without having specific public liability and third party insurance would fall well into the "stupid" category. The risks in this litigious age are simply too great.

All good points and well made.

Top sentence was my thought re wriggle room for the insurance co.

Next sentence... if only so they didn't give further justification for the constant ramping up of premiums!

Last point, I would assume this to be the case but there is a reasonable probability that they could hide behind an LLP or perhaps a very lean company that would be easy to wind down. Or, perhaps I am being a pessimist.

9th May 2024 3:28pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 16947

There is, sadly, an increasingly fine distinction between a pessimist and a realist.

9th May 2024 10:35pm

Puma_MOG

Member Since: 08 Sep 2017
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 126

Small update which I added in my original post.

After a bit of back and forth my insurer has confirmed that green laning is covered due to many of the points listed in this thread but stressed proper off-roading isn't.

Feels good to have this in writing and for peace of mind.

10th May 2024 10:34am

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