DEFENDER2.NET - View topic

↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home · FAQ · New Posts · My Posts · PMs · Search · Members · Map · Calendar · Profile · Donate · Register · Log In

Home > Land Rover Customer Relations > Any Questions

Page 1 of 2

Print this entire topic ·

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17675

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Mike,

Knowing that you enjoy a challenge I wonder if you could comment on the following?

Back in July of 2008 a TSB was issued (the text of which is at the bottom of this post) concerning a problem with the piston cooling jets (PCJs) on the early 2.4 TDCi engines. In effect, if for any reason the oil pressure became excessively high, the PCJs would lock into a zero flow condition which would continue until the oil pressure reduced. Typically on cold start-up with cold oil the jets would shut down, and not until the oil temperature rose and the viscosity of the oil (and hence the pressure) reduced would there be any flow.

The inevitable result of this is severe damage to pistons, bores, and other components, usually resulting in the destruction of the engine.

The TSB required the replacement of the complete engine assembly on affected vehicles where the customer complained.

Subsequent to VIN 9A767162 modified jets were fitted and the problem doesn't occur. Various sources (including the TSB) state that Landrover considers that "this issue is now closed".

However many questions remain concerning this particular issue:-

a) Landrover considers that this issue is now closed. Does this simply means that all engines built with the early and deficient PCJs are now over three years old, hence out of warranty, and consequently Landrover has no further liability for engines destroyed by this defect?

b) Alternatively, does Landrover believe that all engines with the early PCJs have now been modified and are no longer at risk of this happening? I cannot see how this can be the case, since within the forum we know of many pre-2008 Defenders running with the original engines in the affected range.

c) Are there any technical reasons to suppose that if any engine hasn't self-destructed by this means by now, it isn't going to? For example, was it that only some early PCJs had this problem but not all, so if the problem hasn't manifested itself by now it is not going to?

d) In the event that a pre-2008 engine (which has been properly serviced, of course) now develops the symptoms described in the TSB and this can be concluded to be due to the defective PCJs, will Landrover undertake to replace the engine (or undertake to consider replacing the engine) at no cost to the owner, since the existence of the TSB clearly acknowledges that there is an underlying problem with the early PCJs and the TSB further acknowledges that the problem is such that it can occur at any time irrespective of age and mileage?

I appreciate that for understandable reasons you may no be able to provide a definitive answer to the last point, but your comments, and any information (and more importantly reassurance to those of us who have early TDCi vehicles) you can provide would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Roger

The text of the TSB follows:-

Land Rover Service Bulletin SSM38792, 2.4 Puma Engine Knock Noise.
Title: 2.4 Puma Engine Knock Noise.
Type: LD - Defender - All Years - Special Service Messages - Engine
Name / Part No: SSM38792
Info Type: Service Bulletins
Version No: 1
Date Uploaded: 21 Jul 2008
Models: LD - Defender
Title: 2.4 Puma Engine Knock Noise.
Last Modified: 21-JUL-2008 09:44
Category: Engine
Symptom: 497000 Engine Noise

Content Issue: Heavy audible knocking heard on start up.
Cause: On start up oil pressures can cause the piston cooling jets, (PCJ), to latch into a zero flow condition. Due to hysteresis effect in design the jets do not unlatch until the engine is warm and the oil pressures lower again. During this time with no pressurized oil jet flow to the lower pistons / cylinder bores, overheat and scuff conditions / damage can occur.

Action: Replace the engine assy but ensure only engines post serial # ELD00080707063602 are used.
This condition will not occur on vehicles post assured Vin# 9A767162.
Engines post the info above are fitted with modified PCJ internal springs and this issue is now closed.

14th Mar 2014 11:07am

CRC@LandRover
Verified Account

Member Since: 25 Mar 2013
Location: Coventry
Posts: 383

Hi Roger,

Thank you for your message.

TSB's are only there to assist our dealerships in diagnosing faults. They are not recalls, "known failures", common faults etc etc.

So in this situation it would be the same as any other fault. If it is something you are experiencing then I would advise to take your vehicle into any of our Land Rover Approved dealerships for it to be diagnosed. Once diagnosed Land Rover can look into the possibility of contributing towards any repair costs if applicable.

Many Thanks

Mike

14th Mar 2014 2:33pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17675

Mike, thank you!

Fortunately it hasn't happened to my vehicle (at least not yet) but mine is definitely in the range specified in the TSB.

Roger.

14th Mar 2014 2:45pm

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6158

Without knocking Mike @ LR (although I probably am), reading through these questions, is there any question he can actually give a definitive answer to?

It's a bit like talking to a politician...

Sorry if it offends, but that's just the way I read it.

14th Mar 2014 8:13pm

martinfiattech

Member Since: 13 Nov 2013
Location: leicester
Posts: 422

Hello mike,
Thanks for your and your teams help with the problems I`am having with my defender and a certain dealer.
The car has since been to another dealer for inspection and they have been in touch with yourselves. Brenda did leave me a message to arrange for works to commence but I could not understand the last few numbers in the phone number she gave me, I`ve been ringing her back but keep getting cut off, if you could get her to give me a ring tomorrow I would be very grateful I promise to keep my phone in my pocket. Or if you could email it to me as well, the old tinnitus is playing up at the moment due to doing double shifts etc.
I will also ring marshalls l/r tomorrow to see what they say.
In the mean time the car has done its first trouble free 211 miles since I got it, and at last I`am beginning to enjoy owning it and not having to wait for a booking date to fix sturgess`s mistakes or finding oil under it.

Thanks martin...

16th Mar 2014 8:43pm

CRC@LandRover
Verified Account

Member Since: 25 Mar 2013
Location: Coventry
Posts: 383

Hi Martin,

I have asked Brenda to give you a call.

I will also PM you her telephone number.

Many Thanks

Mike

17th Mar 2014 9:49am

goldenbrown

Member Since: 28 Jan 2014
Location: hampshire
Posts: 49

Hi mike you have a PM.

18th Mar 2014 10:37am

Steve W

Member Since: 30 Mar 2014
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 224

Re: Any Questions

Well I've spent the past 6 months looking, reading this forum and debating should I buy a Defender? ..... Given the road conditions and rain, I took the plunge....... Not literally ! I have to say I have never had so much fun in any vehicle smile every time I drive it. Defender 90XS silver / black roof, once I've sorted a few KBX bits I'll post some photos. Now the point of this posting, I need the expert advise of those who know Defenders.... It's 6 months old and I have two issues, both side windows leak and pool behind the seats (leak from the front of the window i think) and what looks like rust developing around the bonnet catches on the bulkhead. Is the window an easy fix or are both these common issues and ones that the Dealer should be addressing?................... Appreciate your advise. Cheers.

30th Mar 2014 7:04pm

CRC@LandRover
Verified Account

Member Since: 25 Mar 2013
Location: Coventry
Posts: 383

Hi Steve W,

Glad to hear your having fun!

However sorry to hear about the issues you are having.

Yes these are issues the dealership should be address. If you book your vehicle in with one of our dealerships PM me the following details and I will follow up accordingly:
Full Name
Email
Reg
VIN
Dealership

Many Thanks

Mike

31st Mar 2014 9:11am

Steve W

Member Since: 30 Mar 2014
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 224

Thanks Mike, I'll go see the dealership in the next couple of days and PM you.

Cheers,

31st Mar 2014 6:58pm

Page 1 of 2

All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Jump to

< Previous Topic | Next Topic >

Posting Rules

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum