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Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.2 XS, Can you switch off the Traction Control?
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
Interesting topic this Thumbs Up

Can't argue with those that have actually experienced it but in theory I find it hard to understand why "But i agree that the TC can brake all 4 wheels sufficiently enough to create the stall. "

especially with an anti stall strategy on our vehicles!

ETC attempts to optimize forward traction by braking a spinning wheel until it regains grip.

ETC is activated if an individual wheel speed is above that of the vehicle reference speed (positive slip) and the brake pedal is not pressed. The spinning wheel is braked, allowing the excess torque to be transmitted to the non spinning wheels through the drive line.
Post #311707 25th Feb 2014 11:10pm
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
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England 
it's not really vehicle speed but the fact that one or more wheels are turning faster ( spinning )
Post #311710 25th Feb 2014 11:15pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8203

 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
all your ETC commnets - correct in my undrstanding

the issue is how agressively the TC is applied. Simens was far harhser system.

in WG example very easy to stall the vehicle with agressive TC responding qucikly.

Similar to how TC reactions are the same parameter in M&R as GGS but its a more agressive response in M&R. if it was too agressive in GGS it could stop the vehicle (momentum wise) Cheers

James
110 2010 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop
Post #311712 25th Feb 2014 11:16pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
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United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
jst wrote:


neither Bosch or Siemens takes account of the CDL position.


I was thinking more of the open centre diff meaning it would not be possible to spin a wheel on both axlexs.

The ABS module monitors the signal from the differential-lock unit and depending if differential-lock is engaged or disengaged, changes the strategy of calculating the vehicle reference speed. The vehicle reference speed is calculated using the longitudinal sensor within the yaw-rate sensor in conjunction with the actual wheel speed.

When the differential-lock is engaged the front and rear axles are driven at the same speed and therefore when cornering the front axle will be traveling faster than if the differential-lock was disengaged.

If the ABS did not change the strategy of calculating the reference speed it would assume that the reference speed calculated with the differential-lock engaged, as incorrect and consequently a fault code would be stored.
Post #311716 25th Feb 2014 11:21pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
munch90 wrote:
it's not really vehicle speed but the fact that one or more wheels are turning faster ( spinning )


I'm quoting from the MY12 Workshop Manual.

The vehicle reference speed is calculated using the longitudinal sensor within the yaw-rate sensor in conjunction with the actual wheel speed.

Otherwise it would come on if you were turning a sharp corner.
Post #311727 25th Feb 2014 11:36pm
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
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yes sorry thought you meant speedo speed
Post #311741 25th Feb 2014 11:52pm
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munch90



Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
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Supacat wrote:
munch90 wrote:
it's not really vehicle speed but the fact that one or more wheels are turning faster ( spinning )


I'm quoting from the MY12 Workshop Manual.

The vehicle reference speed is calculated using the longitudinal sensor within the yaw-rate sensor in conjunction with the actual wheel speed.

Otherwise it would come on if you were turning a sharp corner.


isn't yaw-rate more to do with stabity control

for example if you were stuck in the mud so stationary and tried to drive out but couldn't how would the yaw sensor know what your trying to do as your not moving . the traction control still works ever if your not moving by the wheel sensors giving speed readings for each wheel

think the different wheel speed has to be greater then different speed given by cornering as if you stop one wheel the other wheel on the same axle travels twice the speed
Post #311748 26th Feb 2014 12:25am
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Natlas



Member Since: 20 Mar 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 462

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green
Hi Guys,
Just found out that you can temporarily disable traction control by lightly touching the brake pedal with your left foot - seems to work and help in deep mud.
Cheers,
John 2.2 90 XS
88" Series One
Old Norton Smile
Minerva
Post #314079 6th Mar 2014 10:04pm
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pjw4233



Member Since: 30 Nov 2009
Location: Lake District & Cheshire
Posts: 273

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey
Interesting topic

Surprised to hear TC can stall the vehicle, in theory it shouldn't brake more than two wheels at any one time, especially with the older system which worked independently on each axle. That means with the older system, even with TC you would only have drive to one axle. The new system is four way, working on all four wheels, so in theory you can get away with not using the CDL like in the Disco 2, though there would be more wheel spinning involved. Personally I'd always use the CDL for better control.

Interesting fact, with the CDL locked, the hand brake works on both axles, as they are locked together, which is one of the reasons I'd have it locked off roading.

Personally during a failed hill, I wouldn't waste my time with the hand brake, the sooner you are in reverse gear and let out the clutch pedal, the sooner you are in control.


Last edited by pjw4233 on 7th Mar 2014 12:26am. Edited 1 time in total
Post #314154 7th Mar 2014 12:17am
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JWL



Member Since: 26 Oct 2011
Location: Hereford
Posts: 3443

England 2002 Defender 110 Td5 SW Coniston Green
"Personally during a failed hill, I wouldn't waste my time with the hand brake, the sooner you are in reverse gear and let out the clutch pedal, the sooner you are in control."

That's when I found the brake pedal solid and unresponsive and off we went, me as a passenger Whistle
Post #314155 7th Mar 2014 12:25am
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pjw4233



Member Since: 30 Nov 2009
Location: Lake District & Cheshire
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United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey
I can see where you are coming from.

I've had quite a few failed climbs whilst doing TYRO/RTV events, as soon I feel the climb is going to fail, I'm in reverse gear before gravity takes over. I never waste time with the hand brake and don't normally waste time with the brake pedal.

I've surprised a few people doing RTV in a standard Puma, TC when used correctly makes the vehicle very competitive.
Post #314157 7th Mar 2014 12:37am
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JWL



Member Since: 26 Oct 2011
Location: Hereford
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England 2002 Defender 110 Td5 SW Coniston Green
Second to reverse on a sloppy well worn Td5 110 is not a slick, split second affair, not on mine anyway Laughing
Post #314159 7th Mar 2014 12:42am
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pjw4233



Member Since: 30 Nov 2009
Location: Lake District & Cheshire
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United Kingdom 2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey
Rolling with laughter Rolling with laughter

I guess I have that to look forward to, in the near future
Post #314162 7th Mar 2014 12:51am
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
John Baron wrote:
Hi Guys,
Just found out that you can temporarily disable traction control by lightly touching the brake pedal with your left foot - seems to work and help in deep mud.
Cheers,
John


Thumbs Up as per the workshop manual:

"ETC is activated if an individual wheel speed is above that of the vehicle reference speed (positive slip) and the brake pedal is not pressed."
Post #314324 7th Mar 2014 6:19pm
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Supacat



Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green
pjw4233 wrote:
Personally during a failed hill, I wouldn't waste my time with the hand brake, the sooner you are in reverse gear and let out the clutch pedal, the sooner you are in control.


I'd disagree with this and your later post about not even bothering with the footbrake.

You may speed up getting back in control, but that's only because your technique puts you out of control in the first place by using the clutch before you have stalled.

If you are in a timed competitive event that may be a corner worth cutting but not in normal circumstances.
Post #314326 7th Mar 2014 6:25pm
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