 | Home > My Defender > Webasto Block Heater Photos |
 
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| T1G UP Member Since: 08 Dec 2009 Location: Bath Posts: 3101   
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when the webastos off it stops flow through the unit |
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6th Aug 2012 9:35pm |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069 
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the hot water from the heater is directed (pumped) towards the internal radiator then out to the engine and back to the heater. the one way valve (like T1G UP says) allows the flow to bypass the heater when not in use (ie the engine is running).
looking at my picture of the one-way valve, I have a pipe guard being made to hold the 3 pipes correctly so that they don't rub against each other, the problem with routing them underneath is the brake pipes |
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6th Aug 2012 10:42pm |
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| BigRuss Member Since: 15 May 2010 Location: Norfolk Posts: 2785  
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Just to add to that point, if you have the water running through the webasto all the time when it isn't running you will allow the ware to cool before reaching the heater matrix, this reducing the cab heater efficiency and creating a cold and anger wife
 Russell
2011MY 110 XS USW Black |
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7th Aug 2012 6:48am |
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| cobs Member Since: 12 Jun 2008 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 336 
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One way valve is a good idea but not essential. On mine the coolant runs directly through the webasto - the webasto coolant pump is free spinning and mine has been fine over the past twelve months. There may be some minor heat loss through the extra pipe run but not that I've noticed
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7th Aug 2012 9:35am |
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| Phil VM2.5 Member Since: 28 Mar 2012 Location: Limelette Posts: 196  
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Hello,
having use for 20 years such kind of equipment on a Range Rover (eberspacher) , I would like to place one on my defender 110 sw 2.2. but the installation is not as easy because lack of space. the 2.2 engine take so long time to heat, let say 5 km !, it will be good to place one thanks for this post Philippe current : defender 110 sw 2.2 puma 2012 and 230.000km today and again my Range Rover VM2.5 engine from 1992 and 528.000km today. One ten 1988 to 1992 1987 BMW GS80 One Ten from 1984 to 1987 One Ten from 1983 to 1984 Serie 3 109 from 1980 to 1983 from 1974 Jeep CJ3B and CJ6 |
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7th Aug 2012 1:18pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586 
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for do not decrease the internal heat exchanger efficiency when the heater is switched off. With the Webasto in the "middle" of the pipeline there are same losses (pipes, webasto burner, webasto pump,...) that produce less water flow to the cabin heater = less heat power on cabin heater when the heater is switched off. STANDARD INSTALLATION  Click image to enlarge REFINED INSTALLATION Click image to enlarge Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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7th Aug 2012 1:59pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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see my photos for install it closer to the gearbox...... Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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7th Aug 2012 2:10pm |
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| Phil VM2.5 Member Since: 28 Mar 2012 Location: Limelette Posts: 196
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hi,
thanks for the quick answer ... must be one solution Philippe current : defender 110 sw 2.2 puma 2012 and 230.000km today and again my Range Rover VM2.5 engine from 1992 and 528.000km today. One ten 1988 to 1992 1987 BMW GS80 One Ten from 1984 to 1987 One Ten from 1983 to 1984 Serie 3 109 from 1980 to 1983 from 1974 Jeep CJ3B and CJ6 |
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7th Aug 2012 2:26pm |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069
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To add to your choice, webasto have also brought out a new heater called the Thermotop EVO, this is similar to the Thermotop C, not exactly sure of the heat output, but the unit is smaller and may be a better fit in a defender. I know the Swiss fitting kit I bought mentions the EVO.
The pipes on the EVO are both in the same place, which should make fitting easier. Daniele (dgardel) kit is from Entreq My kit was direct from Webasto Switzerland If you do fit an EVO, please publish the photos ! Update: Having studied Daniele's photos, I re-routed the air-con pipe and re-tested, seems to be a better fit now and still away from the brake pipes. |
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7th Aug 2012 3:29pm |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069
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tidied my pipes up a bit ..
Click image to enlarge |
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8th Aug 2012 11:16am |
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| boode Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: Devon Posts: 421 
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Hi I may be having a silly moment but I do not quite understand the one way valve issue.
In the second picture below - when the webasto is working - what stops the hot coolant from the engine simply by passing the webasto and going straight to the heater matrix ? -as it would when the webasto is not working ? Is it simply the small webasto pump that increases flow and draws water into the webasto and not through the one way valve ?
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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8th Aug 2012 7:33pm |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586
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Click image to enlarge ========================================================= FIRST SCENARIO ENGINE COLD ENGINE OFF - WEBASTO ON (Webasto pump ON) The ONLY working pump is the Webasto pump. The Webasto pump such the water from the engine and, pull the heated water to the cabin heater. Because at the right of the valve 2 the pressure is higher than at the left, there is not water that came back. After the cabin heater the heated water came back to the engine block by the lower pipeline. In this scenario there is no difference between the efficiency of the two solutions. ========================================================= SECOND SCENARIO ENGINE WARM ENGINE ON - WEBASTO OFF (Webasto pump OFF) The ONLY working pump is the engine pump. In this case the engine pump push the water through the cabin heater: 1. with the standard solution the 100% of the warm water to reach the cabin heater must pass through the Webasto, but the webasto pump is OFF so you have losses (pump, pipelines) that means less flow through the cabin heater. 2. with the NON RETURN VALVE the water go directly to the cabin heater by the shortest path without losses = without decrease the water flow = decrease the cabin heater power ========================================================= THIRD SCENARIO ENGINE COLD ENGINE ON - WEBASTO ON (Webasto pump ON) Both the engine and webasto pumps are ON. in this case the Webasto is a sort of adjuvant for reduce the coolant (and cabin) warm up time. ========================================================= I hope I was clear in my explanation Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
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8th Aug 2012 10:01pm |
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| boode Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: Devon Posts: 421
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 Thanks |
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9th Aug 2012 7:58am |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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BPMan,
I have one thing that bothers me with this type of install. Correct me if I am wrong and i am not trying to trash on your install, which is superb btw.  So this is my personal opinion just as info for people considering installing a webasto.
When putting my webasto in my discovery a couple of years back there were 2 possible ways of doing it. The first one as you have done, which puts the heating output towards pre-heating the cabin. Most cars are done that way. But i found that at outside temps of -10 the cabin will take so much heat that the engine barely heats up. My 3.0 liter MB takes 1.5 hours to get to 40° water temp while the cabin is defrosted within 20 minutes. This might be the solution you are looking for,and that's 100% OK It will also work perfectly in mild climates, but as you are planning for real cold I want to put in my experiences So.. (here we go) An airtop will heat the cabin faster and more efficient, while also not pre-heating the engine. My point is that I rather heat up (and protect) the engine first before the cabin. (surely at a 1000+ installation cost of such a system) You will also notice that once you start the car you will momentary cool down the interior while the engine heats up and thermostat opens. That’s another problem i experienced here as the engine would cool down from 40° and never reach normal operating temps when starting driving, the cooling capacity of the engine outperformed the webasto heater and eventually also the cabin started cooling down. I installed the webasto parallel to the heater matrix (so from pt2 vertical down to the return line). This had as effect that the engine was heated up much more and faster, normal operating temps after 30min. The cabin took longer to heat up, only a couple of degrees difference. (as there is no active pump, so heat moves just by thermal action) But once you started the engine the heater was working as normally immediately. And the engine was able to keep normal operating temps when driving off. I found that this was a better protection for my engine, as the engine block would not cool down again. And even gave better cabin conditions although you don’t step into a 30° cabin when driving off. Simply said I think the difference is Cabin Heater or Engine Heater. Where today a typical installation is towards cabin comfort rather than engine protection. Nothing wrong with that. As info, I have an airtop installed for winter cabin pleasure and will put a defa kit (electrical engine heater) as I am most of the time starting from places which have 220 available and the cost is 1/4th of another webasto installation. Hope i didn't offend anyone.  |
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9th Aug 2012 10:44am |
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